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I have the Grade 8 suspension hardware kit for the track bars & control arms. The question is, should I use Never-Seize on the threads? Why or why not?

On the 'yes' side, it seems like it would be easier to re-torque properly, since there will not be a corrosion issue. Ditto removal, if that should become necessary.

On the 'no' side, the lube could change the torqueing spec by some unknown value...although the new hardware is much stouter than the OEM and should easily handle a little more torque.

What sayeth you Jeepsters?
 

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Threads should be clean and dry. DO NOT "Never Seize" will increase the amount of torque you apply probably 60% or more (not good at all). As Kjeeper10 says fluid film after, excellent! In fact fluid film every damn thing.

Don't use lube on threads unless the spec calls for a wet torque, or sealant applied torque as in head bolts on a big block Chevy engine.
 

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Threads should be clean and dry. DO NOT "Never Seize" will increase the amount of torque you apply probably 60% or more (not good at all). As Kjeeper10 says fluid film after, excellent! In fact fluid film every damn thing.

Don't use lube on threads unless the spec calls for a wet torque, or sealant applied torque as in head bolts on a big block Chevy engine.

Anti-sieze does not 'increase the ammount of torque you apply'. 100ft-lbs is 100 ft-lbs. It does increase the effective clamping load. Torquing does not snap bolts or strip threads, over tension due to increased clamping force does. A more real world number is 30-40%. Our current batch at work is testing at 31-32%.

Keep in mind most people on this forum who even own a torque wrench are dealing with something +/- 10% at best.


I used anti-sieze on mine and adjusted accordingly using the information on the PDS.

If torques are give for a plain or chromed bolt and you use a zinc or cadmium, you are supose to reduce the torque spec for that as well. Retorque a used bolt will cause increase clamping load. The surface asperities were smoothed out with the last torqueing so the retorque is done on a smoother surface and the same torque value will give a higher clamping load.


Yall are way over thinking this. If you anti-sieze, drop your torque 30% and move on with life.
 

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Anti-sieze does not 'increase the ammount of torque you apply'. 100ft-lbs is 100 ft-lbs. It does increase the effective clamping load. Torquing does not snap bolts or strip threads, over tension due to increased clamping force does. A more real world number is 30-40%. Our current batch at work is testing at 31-32%.

Keep in mind most people on this forum who even own a torque wrench are dealing with something +/- 10% at best.


I used anti-sieze on mine and adjusted accordingly using the information on the PDS.

If torques are give for a plain or chromed bolt and you use a zinc or cadmium, you are supose to reduce the torque spec for that as well. Retorque a used bolt will cause increase clamping load. The surface asperities were smoothed out with the last torqueing so the retorque is done on a smoother surface and the same torque value will give a higher clamping load.


Yall are way over thinking this. If you anti-sieze, drop your torque 30% and move on with life.
Your wrong on the effect of anti seize on torque. It is a bad practice but you go ahead.

It is a very easy search ( Effects of anti seize on torque values) on Google. You can read all kinds of data, spread sheets galore to come to the conclusion.

But whatever you do Dont Overthink' It, that's very dangerous.
 

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Your wrong on the effect of anti seize on torque. It is a bad practice but you go ahead.

It is a very easy search ( Effects of anti seize on torque values) on Google. You can read all kinds of data, spread sheets galore to come to the conclusion.

But whatever you do Dont Overthink' It, that's very dangerous.
No, actually, I am correct.

Using anti-sieze with a dry torque number does not 'increase the amount of torque you apply'. The torque applied is still the same. The anti-sieze does increase efficency and result in higher tension load on the bolt for a given torque. So the user reduces the applied torque 30% and ends up with the same clamping load.
 

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The tension is the problem. That tension will strip bolts, stretch bolts crush things.

The OP asked if he should use never seize we said no just use a protectant after the fact like fluid film.

Putting never seize on suspension bolt even with reduced torque setting may also cause the hardware loosen up. Cleaning the hardware and installing it to spec is the right way to do it. Its the way a good mechanic would do it, its the way the Mopar factory, General motors, and Rolls Royce would do it. No engine builder would do that, nor a transmission builder. But go ahead and you do it but it is wrong to recommend others should. Never use it on lug nuts either, or starter bolts, or head bolts or pump flanges on jet engines.

Damn
 

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I spent 7 years analyzing torque specs for a major automotive engine manufacturer. Just adding my 2cents on torque vs clamp load:

The purpose of fasteners is to generate clamp load. This is not easily measured outside of a lab. Clamp load is linearly related to the torque applied to the fastener. Torque is easily measured via torque wrench. Since torque is related to clamp load, one can set torque standards on a given fastener to achieve the desired clamp load based on testing results. Know that every torque spec you have ever seen or used is actually just a torque that has been proven to give the desired clamp load thought testing. Each joint is unique. Think bolting into steel, aluminum, rubber gaskets, multiple fasteners ect.

Therefore, anything that can change the relationship between torque and clamp load (lubricant, re-used bolts, burrs or flashing on the thread, sealant/gasket deformities) should be taken into consideration if you are using torque value to reach a wanted clamp load.

In short, if you are not following manufacture recommendations (using anti seize when not directed) you can't use their other recommendations (torque spec). I have not seen a true study on the "30%" rule, but lubrication would create a lower torque to generate the desired clamp force. But again, every fastened joint is unique.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
"Therefore, anything that can change the relationship between torque and clamp load (lubricant, re-used bolts, burrs or flashing on the thread, sealant/gasket deformities) should be taken into consideration if you are using torque value to reach a wanted clamp load.

In short, if you are not following manufacture recommendations (using anti seize when not directed) you can't use their other recommendations (torque spec). I have not seen a true study on the "30%" rule, but lubrication would create a lower torque to generate the desired clamp force. But again, every fastened joint is unique."


This makes sense. I have never seen a general rule specifying a 30% reduction in torque for lubricated threads. It seems to me that would include a large number of variables - bolt size, thread size, plating type, smoothness, type of nut, type of washer, etc.

I think I will go with dry threads, and fluid film afterwards to keep corrosion at bay.

BTW, I have always applied a LIGHT coat of anti seize on wheel lug bolts at the first tire rotation. Do it once and it prevents corrosion for the life of the vehicle. I've done this for decades on a couple dozen vehicles and have never had a problem with loosening. FWIW I don't torque the lug nuts. When you've done hundreds, or perhaps thousands, you develop a feel for how tight they should be.
 

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Just for the record, I not only would not apply never seize to the suspension hardware that hold axles under my jeep as I ride close to cliffs and so on, I actually apply red Loctite to those fasteners.

We use quarts of neverseize and lubriplate in the plants on any application using SS hardware to prevent galling. Also on panels and access covers on electrical gear to prevent corrosion issues. These fasteners have lock washers in place.

Happy wheeling and to all a good night.
 
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