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Discussion Starter #1
Just a reminder that the "max trailer capacity" numbers that all the advertisements keep harping on are NOT the entire story.

You have to also consider the GVWR, which is the total load you can apply to the truck (all people inside, cargo, tongue weight) and the payload which are both listed on the door jamb placards.

As an example from a Rubicon model I just looked at:

OK, let's say you've got a payload of 1,148 lbs. and towing rating of 7,000 lbs.

Let's say you're going camping. Rarely does a guy camp alone, so let's say you're going to take your family. Assuming a 200 lb. driver, 150 lb. spouse, and two kids with a total weight of 200 lbs, that's a total of 550 lbs. right?

So now you've got 598 lbs. of payload remaining, because the owners manual specifically states that the driver, passengers, cargo, and tongue weight all subtract from the payload.

So now IF you do not put anything else at all in the cargo box, and your trailer applies 10% of its weight to the tongue, you can tow a 5,980 lb. trailer.

If you add, let's say, 150 lbs. worth of camping gear into the bed of the truck, then you're left with 448 lbs. of payload which, at 10% tongue weight, would cap you at a 4,480 lb. trailer.

My point being, it is VERY hard to reach the maximum trailer towing capacity (called GTW in the manual) on a Gladiator, and this is especially true of the Rubicon model. There are VERY specific conditions in which you can get anywhere close to the 7,000 lb. number, and so far Jeep has done a terrible job of explaining this in printed materials.

This applies to all trucks, but the midsize truck class seems to suffer from it the worst in my experience. The payload ratings really cap the usefulness of the truck.
 

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What you say is pretty true of all trucks and manufacturers be it small, mid size or full sized. It's not only GCVW you need to look at but tongue weight, receiver class and max weight, ball receiver max weight and the ball max weight.

The tongue of the trailer and axles. There are many people towing things that exceed the capacity of what they are towing in one or more of these areas and should they have an accident a good insurance co. will notice that and you will not be covered.

Therefore manufacturers Will state GVW, GCVW, and towing capacity. They have done their homework and it's up to you to do yours on the rest of the picture.

They are not being deceptive in fact they are being as truthful as they can be.

The previous video also shows what can happen when possibly still in limits. When towing something that has that much surface area winds and wind direction can cause lots of bad things to happen. This is where common sense come into play.
 

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+1

Towing capacity has a bunch of variables, and the only constant is that advertisers like to cite the maximums. Luckily that is a constant, so if three trucks have advertised towing capacities you know that they're all theoretical maximums.

Another constant is that if you don't like the capacity, there's always a bigger, more capable vehicle available. Just because most people treat mid size and full size trucks the same doesn't mean they have the same capabilities.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Therefore manufacturers Will state GVW, GCVW, and towing capacity. They have done their homework and it's up to you to do yours on the rest of the picture.

They are not being deceptive in fact they are being as truthful as they can be.
Yeah my main gripe right now is that Jeep has NOT stated in printed materials what the GCWR, GVWR, payload, etc. is on each model and configuration of the Gladiator.

It's not in the owners manual, it's not in the brochures the dealerships have, and I can't find it on their website anywhere.

In fact, the owners manual is so bad that is makes ZERO mention of Rubicon, Overland, or Sport, nor does it mention transmission type, axle ratio, or anything else that can affect the ratings. It simply says "with Max Towing" and "without Max Towing" which we all know is not the case, and is extremely vague.

That's why I posted this as a heads up. If you're going to buy/lease a midsize truck with plans to tow with it, make sure you watch those payload numbers and do the math!
 

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You should check out the 5th wheel RV forums. Everyone wants somebody to tell them its ok to tow their 5th wheel with their half ton. Ten of thousands of posts. Its just like buying a house. Don't pick the one that you have to struggle making the mortgage. Don't buy a Jeep to pull a coach that should only be pulled by a one ton dually. (nickles worth of free advice)
 

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Yeah my main gripe right now is that Jeep has NOT stated in printed materials what the GCWR, GVWR, payload, etc. is on each model and configuration of the Gladiator.

...

In fact, the owners manual is so bad that is makes ZERO mention of Rubicon, Overland, or Sport, nor does it mention transmission type, axle ratio, or anything else that can affect the ratings. It simply says "with Max Towing" and "without Max Towing" which we all know is not the case, and is extremely vague.

If you're going to buy/lease a midsize truck with plans to tow with it, make sure you watch those payload numbers and do the math!
First, the Gladiator is a model. The only model of the Gladiator is the Gladiator. It's a Gladiator.

Moving on, the owner's manual doesn't mention the tow ratings of different color Gladiators or if hard top and soft top Gladiators are rated differently. It doesn't even mention the effect your FM radio preset selections have on the tow rating. Do you want to know why? Because paint color and musical preferences have as much bearing on towing capacity as your gear ratio or fender flares. Do you really think towing is some kind of tractor pull competition?

There's a difference between an idea and a plan. If you have plans to tow, you start the buying process by understanding that: knowing what you're going to tow, and leading with that as a requirement. It's not about Overland or Sport any more, it's about towing. If you want Max Towing, you're probably looking at a Sport. Aside from the fact that the Rubicon's more offroad primed suspension may not be the best option for towing, a Sport has a lower curb weight than the other trim levels, which is going to affect its payload capacity.

Don't blame the owner's manual for the fact that it gives answers you don't want to hear.
 

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You are correct in the obtaining knowledge prior to purchasing the tow vehicle is the best course of action. Too many people see/hear the commercial and fixate on the advertised max capacity and stop there.

Admittedly, I was like this when I purchased my 2009 F150. I never checked the payload sticker until I read about it on the RV forum. I was shocked that it as 920 lbs. I towed for a while like that, but then I stepped up to a 11 F250 w/2000+ payload irrc. Now, my 17 250 has 3,160 lb payload. Towing well under the rating makes the entire experience more relaxed.

I fear too many gladiators will be traveling down the road overloaded; a lot of the 'tail wagging the dog' going on.

Hopefully the buyers will do research, but probably not. Now we not only have 1/2 ton guys trying to tow more than the truck is rated, we will have mid-size guys doing the same.
 

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You are correct in the obtaining knowledge prior to purchasing the tow vehicle is the best course of action. Too many people see/hear the commercial and fixate on the advertised max capacity and stop there.

Admittedly, I was like this when I purchased my 2009 F150. I never checked the payload sticker until I read about it on the RV forum. I was shocked that it as 920 lbs. I towed for a while like that, but then I stepped up to a 11 F250 w/2000+ payload irrc. Now, my 17 250 has 3,160 lb payload. Towing well under the rating makes the entire experience more relaxed.

I fear too many gladiators will be traveling down the road overloaded; a lot of the 'tail wagging the dog' going on.

Hopefully the buyers will do research, but probably not. Now we not only have 1/2 ton guys trying to tow more than the truck is rated, we will have mid-

size guys doing the same.
We have all done it. Scary.

When the dog wags its happy. When your trailer wags its poopoo in your Tommy Hilfiger boxers. A complete mess.

I was semi-addicted to the YouTube videos of waggers caught on tape good stuff. Also, the boat launch fails where the tow truck guys has to put on his scuba gear to pull your jeep and boat from the depths of the unknown.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
First, the Gladiator is a model. The only model of the Gladiator is the Gladiator. It's a Gladiator.

Moving on, the owner's manual doesn't mention the tow ratings of different color Gladiators or if hard top and soft top Gladiators are rated differently. It doesn't even mention the effect your FM radio preset selections have on the tow rating. Do you want to know why? Because paint color and musical preferences have as much bearing on towing capacity as your gear ratio or fender flares. Do you really think towing is some kind of tractor pull competition?

There's a difference between an idea and a plan. If you have plans to tow, you start the buying process by understanding that: knowing what you're going to tow, and leading with that as a requirement. It's not about Overland or Sport any more, it's about towing. If you want Max Towing, you're probably looking at a Sport. Aside from the fact that the Rubicon's more offroad primed suspension may not be the best option for towing, a Sport has a lower curb weight than the other trim levels, which is going to affect its payload capacity.

Don't blame the owner's manual for the fact that it gives answers you don't want to hear.

That's a great attempt at being a smart @$$ and I'll applaud that. :appl:

Unfortunately you're wrong. Paint color and music presets don't affect towing, but MODEL differences do. And the Gladiator nameplate has more model differences than any other truck in the segment. Each has different coil springs, different axle configurations, different tires, etc. No other truck varies more across the lineup than the Gladiator. And so for that reason, it DOES matter whether you're talking Rubicon, Overland, Sport, Sport with Max Towing, etc. And, Jeep should have noted such in the manual.

Also, Sport's lower curb weight doesn't affect it's payload at all. It's got a 1,105 base payload, compared to 1,140 for Overland and 1,160 for Rubicon, despite the latter being heavier. And, Rubicon has more towing capacity than Overland, despite it's "offroad primed suspension". So your assumptions are apparently wrong.

But that's, again, the entire point of my post. FCA needs to make this specific, clear, and thorough. They need to publish materials stating all of these important numbers for each model/trim (semantics) in the lineup so people can make informed decisions.
 

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You get an apology, I just always see trim levels or marketing packages as the most irrelevant things there are. Jeeps, with their upgrading/modding/junkyard fixing make it even more so. The Gladiator has (of now) one engine, one radiator, one auto trans, one manual trans (each with its own radiator fan), one water pump, one set of brakes, and on and on. You can fancy it up, but it's a Gladiator underneath.

Right off the assembly line, Gladiators do make it hard to figure out towing. With 5 choices for the rear shocks (Normal duty suspension, normal duty plus suspension, performance suspension and heavy duty suspension with gas shocks, plus a couple mentions of GVW), it's hard to tell which is the heavy duty towing setup. There are some that mention 5800# GVW and one set that lists 6250# GVW, but shocks alone won't do it. The springs are worse- there are 27 choices and the codes are all either "spring- right rear" or "spring- left rear".

Jeep tried to take the guesswork out of towing by having 2 ratings: with and without max tow. There's got to be a software component to it, because aside from the crazy rear suspension menu, there isn't much visible that screams "tow package". There are no choices in cooling, not even different wiring anywhere. It doesn't seem right that simply switching out the shocks and springs will magically buy you an extra 3650# worth of towing capacity, but it doesn't make sense to me that simply doing that and flashing the stability control software could do it either. On the outside, it's hard to piece it together.

It makes perfect sense for them to conceal what makes it work, especially if software plays a big role. They don't want someone swapping a couple bits of hardware and maybe making the electronics hurt instead of help: there's a thread over in JK general discussion right now where people actually are actually maintaining that because Jeep broke down tow capacities by trim level and whatnot, simply by changing one item on the chart (the gear ratio in the diffs) you can magically add 1500# to the GCWR and graduate from the 2000# towing capacity to the 3500# capacity.
 

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In the JKU world, the gear ratio from 3.21 to 3.73 is the only component different from Max tow or not that changes the tow rating from 2000lbs to 3500lbs. Yet the Rubicon with the 4.10 can is also only rated to tow 3500lbs. Of course the tow hitch and trailer light harness are also added to Max Tow.
Considering that the 5spd in the JK is the same 5spd in the Trucks with Hemi as is the new 8spd, I just don’t get where that 3.6 8spd in the Gladiator can tow 7,600lbs ..


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UK CRD JKU is 2300kg and 3.6 is 2000kg roughly 5000 lb and 4400 lb
Australia same:
https://www.jeep.com.au/content/dam/cross-regional/apac/jeep/en_au/pdfs/MY18_JK_Buyer%27s%20Guide%20v1.pdf
It looks like 3.73 with 3.6 can tow 4400f

I climbed on paved roads to 7000' last weekend and temps where around 230f (AC50%) made some stops to cool it down. (Stock JK, Driver +1) I cannot imagine doing the same route with 1 ton trailer attached. Does anyone have experience towing with 3.6 in warm whether 95+?
 

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UK CRD JKU is 2300kg and 3.6 is 2000kg roughly 5000 lb and 4400 lb
Australia same:
https://www.jeep.com.au/content/dam/cross-regional/apac/jeep/en_au/pdfs/MY18_JK_Buyer%27s%20Guide%20v1.pdf
It looks like 3.73 with 3.6 can tow 4400f

I climbed on paved roads to 7000' last weekend and temps where around 230f (AC50%) made some stops to cool it down. (Stock JK, Driver +1) I cannot imagine doing the same route with 1 ton trailer attached. Does anyone have experience towing with 3.6 in warm whether 95+?
yes I have a 2018 jkurr with 4.10 and auto and tow an aliner that is 1665 dry so when I am towing it would over 2000lb. never had an issue I have towed in 105* heat and up and down mountain passes. prior to my Aliner I had an offroad trailer that was probably around 800-900lbs and never had an issue with either my 2016 jkr with 4.10 and auto or my 18 jkurr. never have I had to stop and cool down. I have towed to utah, colorado, montana, idaho, washington etc. Lots of passes and hot temps.
 

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yes I have a 2018 jkurr with 4.10 and auto and tow an aliner that is 1665 dry so when I am towing it would over 2000lb. never had an issue I have towed in 105* heat and up and down mountain passes. prior to my Aliner I had an offroad trailer that was probably around 800-900lbs and never had an issue with either my 2016 jkr with 4.10 and auto or my 18 jkurr. never have I had to stop and cool down. I have towed to utah, colorado, montana, idaho, washington etc. Lots of passes and hot temps.
Do you monitor your coolant temp on evic or just by the needle?
Just curious what temp yours have with the trailer going up the hill.
 

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Do you monitor your coolant temp on evic or just by the needle?
Just curious what temp yours have with the trailer going up the hill.
yes my last 3 jk's have had evic and I have been as high as 242 give or take and that has not been an issue and that is only when pulling grades. My jeep sees high rpms as living in Montana we have 80mph speed limits.
 
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we came back from Washington last august and it is windy as all get out coming across eastern Wash and we were pulling my small trailer and the jeep was loaded and stayed around 220-226* going 75mph lots of it into a wind. I am on my 4th 3.6 so I do not worry about coolant temps as they are designed to run hot and never had an issue. I know if they get hot enough they shut down but I have never been to that point.

 
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yes my last 3 jk's have had evic and I have been as high as 242 give or take and that has not been an issue and that is only when pulling grades. My jeep sees high rpms as living in Montana we have 80mph speed limits.
I know 230+ is normal, just need some time to get used to it.
I maintain higher rpm uphills to increase coolant flow speed also.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
To update, FCA has released an updated version of the owners manual. Another revision may come for the '21 model year. But, version 2 now has a greatly expanded towing chart with more specific information in it. It shows most of what a guy needs to know before selecting a Gladiator to tow his camper, boat, etc. I'm glad they finally opened up about the specs on these trucks.
 

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Just a reminder that the "max trailer capacity" numbers that all the advertisements keep harping on are NOT the entire story.

You have to also consider the GVWR, which is the total load you can apply to the truck (all people inside, cargo, tongue weight) and the payload which are both listed on the door jamb placards.

As an example from a Rubicon model I just looked at:

OK, let's say you've got a payload of 1,148 lbs. and towing rating of 7,000 lbs.

Let's say you're going camping. Rarely does a guy camp alone, so let's say you're going to take your family. Assuming a 200 lb. driver, 150 lb. spouse, and two kids with a total weight of 200 lbs, that's a total of 550 lbs. right?

So now you've got 598 lbs. of payload remaining, because the owners manual specifically states that the driver, passengers, cargo, and tongue weight all subtract from the payload.

So now IF you do not put anything else at all in the cargo box, and your trailer applies 10% of its weight to the tongue, you can tow a 5,980 lb. trailer.

If you add, let's say, 150 lbs. worth of camping gear into the bed of the truck, then you're left with 448 lbs. of payload which, at 10% tongue weight, would cap you at a 4,480 lb. trailer.

My point being, it is VERY hard to reach the maximum trailer towing capacity (called GTW in the manual) on a Gladiator, and this is especially true of the Rubicon model. There are VERY specific conditions in which you can get anywhere close to the 7,000 lb. number, and so far Jeep has done a terrible job of explaining this in printed materials.

This applies to all trucks, but the midsize truck class seems to suffer from it the worst in my experience. The payload ratings really cap the usefulness of the truck.
Funny I have always done the math, trusting advertising can get you killed. No different than towing our Jeep behind the Motorhome, Calculating Gas bodies, animals, water in tanks Gas in the jeep it all adds up fast. Before we go anywhere I usually hit the truck stop and weight our house and Toad before we leave, I have had to drain my fresh water tank down to 10 gallons just to stay within range. When you find you can't stop even with Aux brakes you learn fast how critical the weight is.
 
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