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Well if you think with front driveshaft removed shifting from 2 hi to 4hi diverts half of engine torque to front yolk and you only get half to torque to rear wheels you got some special logic going on


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I feel like there's a discussion about the differences of static torque, dynamic torque and power coming soon :)
Dont get me started on friction loss hehe inevitably delve into shear losses and eventually oil selection


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I have an '00 TJ, LSD in the rear D44, open in the front. If I have a rear wheel in loose gravel spinning and the LSD is trying to move me forward with the other wheel that has traction, what is the front axle doing? I think you said the front and rear axles are locked together by the Tcase? So assuming the front wheels have equal traction so one of them is not spinning being an open diff, those wheels will be pulling while the LSD is trying to push?
Applying the service brake will simulate traction on both front and rear axles. My TJ has LSD both front and rear. I pull back on the parking brake handle one click to pressurize the rear factory LSD clutch disks. And I tap the service brake when I sense poor traction to multiply the effectiveness of both LSDs.

For your front axle, a cheaper alternative to LSD would be a drop in locker such as Powertrax No-Slip. If you get a front locker then you won't need to bother with tapping the service brake.
 

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your jeep probably has LSD in rear and open in front
you tube has some easy video's to follow.to find out
rear LSD clutches may need to be replaced or upgraded for best performance.
 

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your jeep probably has LSD in rear and open in front
you tube has some easy video's to follow.to find out
rear LSD clutches may need to be replaced or upgraded for best performance.
Op was asking about truetrac which are an eaton/detroit helical lsd with no clutches iirc



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Correct, I was just sayin' LSDs work pretty good when you modulate the brakes
I don't know what made me cringe more - the comment above or when you said "BLDs are almost equal to lockers in effectiveness" without any additional clarifying or qualifying statements... 😩
 

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Discussion Starter #29
I had a TJ with Truetracs front and rear in CO winters. For self described regular winter driving, locked diffs are asking for trouble.

The number 1 thing to do is a set of real snow tires. Number 2 would be careful use of 4 high. Number 3 would be LSDs. The gap between 1 and the rest is huge.

Motive power takes a back seat to stopping and road handling in the winter, I'm sure you know as an experienced winter driver. Tires have an effect on all 3, 4wd and LSDs only on motive. While it's a hassle to struggle getting moving, that pales to losing control on curves or at intersections.

So, given $1000 to spend, DM-V2s or some other winter tires. Open vs TTs is a smaller difference. You'll break traction with either setup in 2wd rather easily most of the time on packed roads. Hence judicious use of 4 high. 4 hi engaged when accelerating away, and off as much as possible otherwise. You'll notice some break away on curves in 4 hi as the lack of differentiation causes slippage as the bind needs to be relieved. Even then it's not common, as natural slipping is always occurring, but on a sharp bend it can happen. Mitigated to a degree by what should be low speed in winter, but something to be aware of. I had replaced the t-case linkage with the cable setup, so shifting 2wd to 4wd was a breeze. If I had the linkage, the constant shift on the fly would have been a headache.

Normal road scenarios, not offroad we're talking. Given my setup, with snows and f&r TTs, the TJ was a beast in the winter. I doubt I could ever get stuck and had total confidence when venturing out. From regular road to blasting through drifts.
Awesome info, thanks so much for your time and advice.
 

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Discussion Starter #30
Thanks so much for all the info. Think ill invest in some snow tires for this winter and leave the LSD for now, see how I get on.
 

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Correct, I was just sayin' LSDs work pretty good when you modulate the brakes
If my F/R Truetracs had worked even "pretty good" while modulating the brakes in every which possible way over the couple years I owned them, I wouldn't have replaced both with lockers. The tougher the terrain, the less effective Truetracs are. They are awesome on slick mostly flat terrain but they truly suck when the terrain gets uneven enough to put a tire (or two) in the air. Terrain that is uneven enough to lift tires up off the trail is what drove me from Truetracs to lockers just over 20 years ago.

This hill called El Hill in Los Coyotes Indian Reservation was the straw that broke the camels back so far as my F/R Truetracs were concerned. That's not my Jeep since I took the photo but when I was at that exact spot with my left-front tire in the air, no amount of braking could get the tire in the air to stop spinning to give the other tire on the ground more power.

4456155


After lockers that type of uneven spot that lifts a tire became a non-problem.

Too bad Los Coyotes Indian Reservation here in San Diego County was eventually closed to offroading.
 

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Makes sense, nice pic. I think those who are less ambitious, and also concerned about fishtailing, could find a good compromise in a front drop-in locker. That would be cheaper and maybe more effective than a front truetrac.

A rationale for compromise is that while SoCal is dry for 10 months out of the year, the rest of the country has drivers who are more concerned who are concerned about daily on-road effects.

I wonder if a front drop-in locker would have wheel scrub when turning sharply while flat-towing? My front truetrac has some, but I don't know if a front ratcheting locker would be better or worse for that.
 

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Maybe the tire noise when turning sharply in flat towing is caused by the steering wheel not keeping up with the direction of towing? There's no tire scrub when driving the jeep, only when towing it. So I finally answered my own question after all these years.
 
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