[DaisyCutter]

I looked at this 2005 Jeep TJ today.

2005 Jeep Wrangler $11,777 - Sullivan Motor Co. - Mesa, AZ 85202-1115 Dealer

I managed to take the little Jeep home, but I haven't bought it. It's just an extended test drive. I don't make impulse $$$ decisions.

Here's what I noted:

*It idled rough initially, but smoothed out as the day wore on. Now with fresh gasoline, it simply purrs like a kitten

*A few strange noises (faint trans rumble in Neutral w/clutch out), but online searches indicated the sounds I heard are common and benign.

*It's a Hollywood 4x4, the transfercase might be a virgin. Not a single scrape on the underside. No leaks. Missing the soft top clips on either side of the tailgate, 2 holes where each clip used to mount. Stupid aluminum shift knob.

It's got a lot of pretty clean upgrades:
*Brand new soft top.
*Nice front bumper, w' receiver & tow bar adaptable, off road lights
*Nerf bars
*Small lift (2"), rancho shocks front, airbags rear, with schrader valve in the rear bumper
*Dick Cepek wheels, good BFG 31" tires
*Tuffy locking center console
*Airraid cold intake w/ clean install, powerjet chip (I'm not a fan of chips), new Optima Battery.
*Sat radio, detach face, w' remote (for the extreme lazy?)

Note, I'm not a vehicle upgrader. My 2003 Dodge 2500 4x4 was bought with 10,000 miles on it 8 years ago, and it's still dead stock. I even replaced the OEM tires, with originally lasted 70,000, with another set of OEM (despite the ability to fit 35"s and having HD axles). I'll never sell that truck.

I'm good with tools, engineer at Honeywell for a decade, now working as a cop (and loving everything but the pay). My engineer side is reluctant to modify OEM components. I do all my own maintenance (hence my attraction to a Jeep). I've never owned a Jeep.

HOWEVER, if I were to "build" a Jeep, I'd do all of the upgrades this one already has (dumb aluminum shift knob and powerchip excluded). I have a lot of years offroading fullsizers, and frankly I think any bigger than 31"s on standard Jeep axles is a bad idea. I'll go 33"s on a half-ton/Dana 44, bigger yet on a HD. I just prefer to minimize my chances of spending the night in the desert. I tend to be conservative.

This Jeep would retire my 3/4 ton truck to the job of hay/horse hauler. I'd plan to drive the Jeep daily. The gas mileage seems good (compared to my Dodge 2500 4x4). This 2.4L cruises at 75 without working too hard (better than I expected), though maintaining momentum is key, because it takes a long time to get to 75mph. Frankly, I drive under 60mph on the freeway anyway, and this 2.4L isn't even pulling 2,000RPM. I'm the guy in the far right lane pissing the speeders off. I'm totally content with the 4cyl, and in fact I work jobs where I idle for hours on end, and the fuel sipper would be nice for that.

The dealer is willing to sell the linked Jeep to me for $12,000 OTD, with decent financing. For some reason they are eager. Jeeps in AZ are like gold. You can't even touch a TJ with AC for less than $7000, and that's a clapped out 1997 that looks junky, shredded top, etc. This little Wrangler looks showroom, tastefully upgraded, 85,300 miles, runs well, and appears to be poser owned (apologies if the prior owner is a member and sees this)y. It'll need a timing belt. I'm assuming it's a simple replacement I'd do myself. Any reason not to pull the trigger? Anything bad about this model or package? FWIW, I'm an ex Kawasaki racer, so I bleed lime green.

Worth $12K? I stand to lose, what, $5,000 over 5 years... having a good time every day?

I have to return it or buy it tomorrow...

 

[DaisyCutter]

12k is a bit much for a 2.4l with that many miles on it. Not saying thats alot of miles cause 85k is a good start on these machines. Just saying 12k is way overboard imo.

Thanks for the replies.

At 12K OTD, their selling price is close to $10,500. Sales tax in AZ is 10% (actually 9.8%), plus assorted reg and doc fees. Registration is probably just under $200, because AZ is a ripoff.

Dealer said they replaced the top, and the current top is fresh.

There is still haggling to be done.

The little mill should have plenty of miles left with good maintenance, correct?

 

[DaisyCutter]

Gack. Now I'm reading about the 90K timing belt + waterpump service this Wrangler will need shortly. It sounds like a fairly extensive maintenance procedure. I'm thinking the dealer needs to perform this service or discount accordingly. I'll try to use it as a haggle argument.

Anyone here replaced their timing belt DIY?

 

[DaisyCutter]

It drives nice. I isolated the only 2 rattles, the tuffy lid and the spare mount is missing a bolt or two into the wheel. I'd put performance near my buddies 1998 4.0 with his stock gears and 33s. I'll have to downshift on steep hills in the mountains. Around town it scoots fine in 6th at 50mph @ 1800 rpm. It'll hold 70mph fine in 6th on freeway overpasses with almost no extra pedal, around 2800 rpm. It's got a lot of gooodies, maybe it was regeared too? I normally go 60mph on the freeway or less in my big truck. I put $10 in the tank and went 60to miles or so, which is about 20mpg. I can't think of another way to get 20mpg with solid axles and a low range. Plus it'll only sip a little fuel idling for 8 hours at a off duty construction site.

Resale worries me a bit, but I keep my vehicles for several years.

It's 7am, I gotta finish my beer and go to bed so I can wake up perky tonight.

 

[DaisyCutter]

Another note, my buddies 4.0 on 33's slows down like it's dragging a parachute. This little Jeep coasts much better. Also my pop had a 1995performance Cherokee 4.0 he bought new. It ran hot from day one, and truly needed 3,000mi oil changes because it cooked it's motor oil. Do the 4.0 TJs run hot also? Long hours at idle is a big factor for me.

 

[DaisyCutter]

Good to know. Buddies alignment may be outta whack. His 5th gear isn't useable. I wrote off the 4cyls until I drove this one. It's 6th actually has a purpose.

 

[DaisyCutter]

I took a closer look at the lil Jeep:

I pulled off the timing belt inspection cover, and saw "Napa" in bright yellow painted on the belt. It's been replaced already, unless Jeep uses Napa belts, LOL.

The bottom is clean. The exhaust looks upgraded, muffler says "Dynomax".

It's got what I assume to be coil spacers on the front, those are Teraflex brand.

At this point, I really like this Jeep. Somebody spent a small fortune on upgrade that I can get for free. I think I will play dumb about the new belt and try to work a deal for a few hundred less. I have a paid off Hemi 2500 4x4 quad cab in the garage for when I feel like hearing a V8 with flowmasters.

If the dealer won't budge then I'll pass. Used Wranglers may be expensive, but they are plentiful. This dealer has at least a dozen.

KBB is $13k+
NADA is $12.5k

If I can swing $11.5k OTD then I think I'll pull the trigger.

 

[DaisyCutter]

There are slower rigs out there. My good friend and ex-father in law still drives the Toyota 22r3 4x4 longbed he bought new in 1982. It's has 490k miles, has worn out it's second engine, and now has a 4runner tranny. Cold a/c, manual trans. He will never sell it and claims it's in his will with my name on it. Longbed with 31s. That rig is slow. Probably has less hp than 100hp. With a manual, 4cyl has always been adequate for a small 4x4.

 

[DaisyCutter]

The dealer (and I) settled at $10775 plus TTL.

I think it fits my needs perfectly. Frankly, it'll get used more as a postal Jeep than a 4x4, running errands around town. I'm not in a hurry. I work weekend nights. I'm the guy at the bar at noon on Tuesday, eating hotwings.

Anyway, here's the Jeeps stablemate:

I figure anything the little toad can't handle, the Dodge can. I love the truck, and a primary reason for getting the Jeep is to keep some miles off the Dodge. I'm getting buried in that Dodge truck. A proper man just can't roll in a CRV or RAV4... considered an Xterra or old 90's 4cyl 4Runner, but thought I could do better with a Jeep.


BTW, today I dropped the little Jeep from 6th to 5th and at 70mph on the freeway. It spun up to 85mph and was still pulling when traffic ahead of me slowed and I had to let off. It won't break 75mph in 6th.

FWIW, I typically roll at 55mph or 60mph on the freeway, so it's capable enough for me. Even with that monster 7,000lb Dodge 2500 4x4 rolling on E-rated 265/75/17s... I can get 18mpg highway cruising 55-60mph by virtue of it's 5-speed auto with 0.67-1 overdrive and 3.73 gears. She's doing 1500 RPM at 55mph, berely chugging. Around town I get about 11mpg, and average about 12.5 combined. You ultimately can't beat physics. Inertia applies to objects in motion and static. The Dodge has a lot of inertia to move from a stop, and there is no way around it.

The little toad Jeep should do much better than the Dodge in the city. It's got greatly lower fuel consumption at idle and far less inertia. I ran the Jeep down until the low fuel light chimed on, then put in three gallons of fuel and drove over 50 miles (some of it hard driving) before it chimed again (16-17ish mpg). It was as scientific as I could get on an overnight test drive. I've already topped the little Jeep off and I'll do a proper full-tank mileage test with a light foot now.

IMO, light foot is the best way to drive. My old Ram has 122,000 miles on the odometer. A set of E-rated tires lasts 70,000 miles. I've replaced the front brake pads once at 50k (when the ex-wife used to drive it), and after 70K more on the replacement OEM pads, they still have a lot of life left. I also had to replace the battery for the first time last year, and I put in a thermostat about 3 years ago. Other than regular maintenance, nothing has ever failed. It's never been to a mechanic. I'm guessing that since the engine rarely ever sees the + side of 2500 rpm, nothing really wears or gets too hot. Yeah, I drive that slow. My fiancee hardly believes I can drive fast enough to do my job. I don't know, I've got nothing to prove to any strangeron the road.

At any rate, a 4cyl Jeep may be desireable for some people. People who won't do extreme 4x4ing, with huge lifts and tires, don't need the extra power or want the additional fuel cosumption that comes with it. If the Jeep were to be my only vehicle, and I wanted to do extreme 4x4ing, and I didn't have a tow-rig to get it down the highway, then I'd be all over a 4.0 6-cyl. As it stands, I got a pretty well set-up little Jeep for $5K-6K less than a comparable I6 Jeep.

Back in the mid 90's, when I was a teenager and fuel was 95-cents/gallon, I owned nothing but huge lifted V-8 4x4s, a 1972 F-250 Camper Special, 1975 F-100 (fullsize) Ranger, 1979 Ford Bronco. I didn't care what mileage they got. The rumble from the exhaust is/was addicting. MY old Camper Special didn't need catalytic converters or an air-pump. Heck, I recall filling it up with regular gas, and worrying whether unleaded would hurt it's valve seats. I could rev it, and it would shoot flames out the exhaust on decel.

Gasoline will go back up to $4.00 per gallon (at least) in 2012. The annual cost difference between getting 20mpg and 13mpg will be about $1200/year or $100 per month. A handful of MPGs is a big factor.

Lastly, I LOVE I-6 engines. IMO, that's the perfect engine design for balance and performance. They naturally balance better than I-4s, and produce better torque than V6s. There is a reason why BMW uses I-6s. If they weren't as rare as hen's teeth, I'd have bought a 1993-1996 Bronco with the fuel injected 4.9L I-6 and a 5-speed manual OD transmission. I gave up on ever finding a clean one. Granted, they don't get great fuel economy, but that 300ci inline 6 was IMO the greatest gas truck engine ever fielded, with it's gear driven valve train (no belt or chain), they'll sometimes last 500,000 miles. BTW, F-350s, school buses, and dump trucks came from factories with that amazing little engine.

I suppose I've always been a fan of low HP 4-wheel vehicles. The I-4 engine is precisely what I wanted, and it performs better than I expected ta'boot. I'm not suffering.

Apologies for rambling and being scatter-brained.

Also, thank you for the advice. I read and weighed all responses, and each was relevant. However, we all have our own unique objectives/priorities/desires for our Wranglers.