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Discussion Starter #1
Trying to budget my lift is costing me even more grief.
After months and months of chasing death wobble I have finally resolved the issue but now I am trying to eliminate all bump steer.

I replaced and added: (Before and during chasing DW)
Currie 4" Lift (Upper adj. Arms only)
Synergy Ball Joints
Synergy Drag Link Flip
Another Mopar Tie Rod
AEV Geo Correction Brackets
Fox 2.0 w/ Res.
Artec C Gussets
Artec Truss F/R (Dana 44)
Extended Brake Lines
Timken Hubs

AND F/R Rubicon Express Adjustable Track Arms

Here is where my frustration begins.
I thought I might be able to get away without adding adjustable track arms to the list. Clearly I was wrong after seeing my axles being skewed much farther off to the side than I had expected. I live 15 minutes from
4 Wheel Parts so I figured I would run up to them and talk parts and see what they suggested.

They recommended the Rubicon Express Track arms, they REALLY pushed these. And against my better judgement I decided to go with their recommendation due to price and availability.

I get them home the next day and install them quickly without making any real adjustment so I can just get it back to 4 Wheel Parts for a full alignment.

Turns out the products they recommended me dont work as well as they claim. The rear Track arm wouldn't adjust far enough in, leaving the axle off center by 13/16". The front Track arm ALSO would not adjust far enough in leaving the axle off center in the opposite direction by over an inch.

The mechanics and salesmen assured me this would be hardly noticeable and is very common when lifting a vehicle which I can believe to an extent. I decided to give it a try and see how everything worked.

My timeline is a little off here because while this was going on I was chasing DW and the Jeep was in the garage many of times for days on end.

I ended up realizing that what they set me up with wasn't going to work and was very unprofessional for them to install parts in such a fashion. So I went back and they were saying that because it had been more than 30 days they couldn't return my money, only exchange it for the exact product. Total bullshit.

I ended up modifying the frame side Track bar bracket and drilling a hole an inch farther out giving me some room for adjustment, and it worked. I got the axle centered.

Then the next issue, now I have changed the range of motion and the geometry of the Track bar. It started coming in contact with the front diff, and I feel this may be the cause for my remaining bump steer.

Again, I installed the Synergy Drag link flip and my angles were almost perfect. But I went ahead and got the Synergy Track bar brace to move the track bar back to the stock location, and now my front axle is off center again. The bump steer has minimized even more, but is still there and I am getting a strange wandering feeling from the axle being off centered.
(Not caster related).

So now I'm stuck with shitty parts that were recommended to me by "professionals in aftermarket off-road products" especially for my build.
Come to find out later that 4Wheel Parts actually OWNS Rubicon Express, huh go figure. Rat bastards.

So now I'm either going to chop the length of the track bar by an inch and re-weld it, or just scrap it and buy something new.

Any suggestions?
Any advice on the bumpsteer causes not related to the relation of the
Drag Link / Track Bar being parallel (which they are, track bar raised bracket + Drag Link Flip)

whoo, sorry for the rant but I am at my witts end here. I do 95% of the work on my rig and am feeling like im backed into a corner after months of fighting front end issues.
 

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Sorry to hear about your problems,4 wheel parts has always been known to push there own crap over other brand parts. There sales people are pressured to sell there own stuff plus they get more commision My opinion rubicon exp is a bad lift all together . You get what you pay for.looks like your doing right things to try and correct probs though, what castor and pinion angle are you running ?
 

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As far as axles being out of wack after installing adj. track bars being normal, I call BS. It may be normal with their products but when I installed currie track bars with my 4 in lift, they put everything back where it should be. I could see it being off if it were a small lift, but at 4 in, the bars should bring everything back to center.
 

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It's possible with a track bar that is too long.Get yourself some track bars that adjust to stock which you need when raised at the mounts. You are still experiencing bump steer because the angles are now incorrect.

Why don't you do this stuff yourself ? The chain stores typically have monkeys that recommend parts that make them the most money.
 

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This is a good example of why not to jack it up 4"without a complete kit. All 8 arms and track bars. Both track bars raised at the mounts and adjustable track bars. Possible high steer and aftermarket housing w/ 10-11* angle separation.

What is your def of "bumpsteer"
I got a PM and even talked to his tech. Not saying this is the case. What we determined after installing all 8 arms and synergy flip, this guy was just not ready for a lifted jeep w/ solid axle. There's always going to be feed back in the wheel. Big mud tires track funny and simulate Bumpsteer. All the crap I have on my rig it still doesn't handle perfect.
 

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Sorry to hear about your frustrations with 4 Wheel. Which store was it? I went to the one in Tucson this week and their service/employees were horrible--won't be going back.
 

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I replaced and added: (Before and during chasing DW)
Currie 4" Lift (Upper adj. Arms only)

AND F/R Rubicon Express Adjustable Track Arms


Here is where my frustration begins.
I thought I might be able to get away without adding adjustable track arms to the list. Clearly I was wrong after seeing my axles being skewed much farther off to the side than I had expected. I live 15 minutes from
4 Wheel Parts so I figured I would run up to them and talk parts and see what they suggested.

They recommended the Rubicon Express Track arms, they REALLY pushed these. And against my better judgement I decided to go with their recommendation due to price and availability.

I get them home the next day and install them quickly without making any real adjustment so I can just get it back to 4 Wheel Parts for a full alignment.

Turns out the products they recommended me dont work as well as they claim. The rear Track arm wouldn't adjust far enough in, leaving the axle off center by 13/16". The front Track arm ALSO would not adjust far enough in leaving the axle off center in the opposite direction by over an inch.

My timeline is a little off here because while this was going on I was chasing DW and the Jeep was in the garage many of times for days on end.

I ended up realizing that what they set me up with wasn't going to work and was very unprofessional for them to install parts in such a fashion. So I went back and they were saying that because it had been more than 30 days they couldn't return my money, only exchange it for the exact product. Total bullshit.

I ended up modifying the frame side Track bar bracket and drilling a hole an inch farther out giving me some room for adjustment, and it worked. I got the axle centered.

Then the next issue, now I have changed the range of motion and the geometry of the Track bar. It started coming in contact with the front diff, and I feel this may be the cause for my remaining bump steer.

So now I'm either going to chop the length of the track bar by an inch and re-weld it, or just scrap it and buy something new.

Any suggestions?

whoo, sorry for the rant but I am at my witts end here. I do 95% of the work on my rig and am feeling like im backed into a corner after months of fighting front end issues.
Yeah... go back to Currie and finish buying the 4" kit they sell with their arms and springs. The way I see it you've bastardized your Jeep and is now a potential saftey hazzard.

Cutting brackets, track bars and re-welding them?

God, please watch over this Jeeper..

.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Sorry to hear about your problems,4 wheel parts has always been known to push there own crap over other brand parts. There sales people are pressured to sell there own stuff plus they get more commision My opinion rubicon exp is a bad lift all together . You get what you pay for.looks like your doing right things to try and correct probs though, what castor and pinion angle are you running ?
Castor is set about 6 degrees thanks to the AEV Geo Brackets.
Pinion angle wasn't measured, I just set it to almost parallel.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
It's possible with a track bar that is too long.Get yourself some track bars that adjust to stock which you need when raised at the mounts. You are still experiencing bump steer because the angles are now incorrect.

Why don't you do this stuff yourself ? The chain stores typically have monkeys that recommend parts that make them the most money.
I have done 99% of it myself. I do almost all my own work I just wanted them to put it on the alignment rack and trusted that their recommendation for a track bar would be no issues considering they are "professionals".
 

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Discussion Starter #12
This is a good example of why not to jack it up 4"without a complete kit. All 8 arms and track bars. Both track bars raised at the mounts and adjustable track bars. Possible high steer and aftermarket housing w/ 10-11* angle separation.

What is your def of "bumpsteer"
I got a PM and even talked to his tech. Not saying this is the case. What we determined after installing all 8 arms and synergy flip, this guy was just not ready for a lifted jeep w/ solid axle. There's always going to be feed back in the wheel. Big mud tires track funny and simulate Bumpsteer. All the crap I have on my rig it still doesn't handle perfect.
The kit I bought from Currie was decently complete.
4" Springs
Track bar brackets F/R
Upper Adj. Arms F/R
Bump Stops
Sway Bar Links
etc.

But yes you are right in that I should have ponied up the dough from the get go, but I'm 21 and go to school full time and try to work as much as I can so funds aren't exactly unlimited to say the least.

The feedback in the wheel is slowly fading as I knock things off the list, but the axle is not even close to tracking straight at this point with these junk track arms. And I do have The Synergy Drag Link Flip kit, or high steer if you will.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Sorry to hear about your frustrations with 4 Wheel. Which store was it? I went to the one in Tucson this week and their service/employees were horrible--won't be going back.
They are some nice dudes so I don't want to put the exact store on blast, but 4 Wheel Parts as a corporation is not a place I will be supporting local or not at this point.
 

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The feedback in the wheel is slowly fading as I knock things off the list, but the axle is not even close to tracking straight at this point with these junk track arms. And I do have The Synergy Drag Link Flip kit, or high steer if you will.
There's nothing wrong with RE track bars... many people have them installed with their RE lift kits and no complaints. I have RE stuff on my older Jeep.

RE has quality stuff ... don't blame them for using poor judgement.

.
 

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Take kjeeper10's advice with the track bars, get some front lower adjustable CA's 6* is to much for that lift height
 

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Lift kits commonly produce more lift than advertised. How much actual lift you get is dependent on the configuration of your Jeep. For this reason the bigger the lift, anything about 3" is a sizable lift on a JK, the better off you are with adjust links (track bar and control arms) so you can correct the geometry based on your actual offsets.

Follow the advice above.

Don't mean to get off topic, but what did you do to solve your death wobble issues?
C

If you have any issue that even resembles DW follow Planman's step-by-step process and videos. It is posted all over the internet and he follows this forum.
His process works!
 

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Discussion Starter #18
There's nothing wrong with RE track bars... many people have them installed with their RE lift kits and no complaints. I have RE stuff on my older Jeep.

RE has quality stuff ... don't blame them for using poor judgement.

.
I'm more upset with being led down a dead end street by the people who sold this product to me with a motive other than helping me in a professional manner.

The product has been nothing but trouble, and I just have animosity towards 4 Wheel Parts and the rest of their sister or sibling companies at this point. So I apologize for bashing on stuff you like, just hate that I threw $150 down the drain because I trusted the man behind the counter.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Don't mean to get off topic, but what did you do to solve your death wobble issues?
C
Synergy Ball Joints
Synergy Track Bar Brace
Synergy Drag Link Flip
Timken Hub
Loosened all Control Arms, Upper and Lower with vehicle on the ground.
Checked bushings
Re-Torqued to proper spec with vehicles weight on the tires.
Toe and Caster Adjustment.

All of these things needed to be done on my rig, and I'm only at 33k miles.

Dont waste your time with buying Mopar steering components, go Synergy or Currie the first time.

I went through 2 Mopar Drag links and 1 Tie rod in the matter of 3 months. JUNK
 

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I'm more upset with being led down a dead end street by the people who sold this product to me with a motive other than helping me in a professional manner.

The product has been nothing but trouble, and I just have animosity towards 4 Wheel Parts and the rest of their sister or sibling companies at this point. So I apologize for bashing on stuff you like, just hate that I threw $150 down the drain because I trusted the man behind the counter.
I understand... no need to apologize. I had RE components under my Jeep many years before they went bankrupt and 4 Wheel Parts bought them. They have good products and good name otherwise they wouldn't have been bought. At one time they were considered one of the top lifts for Jeeps.

Curry also has good stuff, not sure who's making their springs now.. it used to be Deaver.

I hope you get it worked out... you may want to look at and replace the front axle isolators. These are often overlooked when diagnosing front end wobbles. I usually start at replacing track bar and control arm bushings - but I've had to replace axle isolators that the upper control arms attached to.

Good luck.

.
 
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