If it helps I had a bad wire going to my starter back in the spring. Caused all sorts of headaches until the shop located it

 

Thanks NJ, I'm starting to think that I may have been overthinking it and got ahead of myself. Guessing that it's probably actually just the starter solenoid trigger wire. Since jumping that straight to the battery makes the motor turn over, and since it doesn't get any voltage when I turn the key (even though the starter relay clicks and seems ok), it must be shorting out, right? It's dark out and my driveway is dirt and big pokey rocks, so I'm having a hell of a time trying to trace the wire. Can someone let me know how the wire is routed and how I might go about swapping it out?

 

Which starter relay are you talking about? Is it the one in the TIPM aka "K3"? Just making sure you aren't talking about the solenoid. You won't get any power going to the smaller wire to the starter solenoid (that is on the starter motor) without the K3 relay activating.

To troubleshoot this you need to know a little bit about the starting system. First, the ignition key and switch is not directly connected to the starter motor. The TIPM has final control of the starter solenoid. When you turn the key to start, you are telling a few modules that you want the motor to start.

It works like this. The ignition switch has 12v coming in and will apply 12v in start (and run and acc) to both the TIPM and to the Wireless Control Module (WCM). The ignition switch has another wire that come out of it and goes to the WCM. It will send a different voltage to the WCM depending of the key is in, key is ACC, key is on RUN, key is on START. This voltage varies from like .5v to 4.5v depending on the key position. The WCM then can determine key position and it sends a message over to the TIPM over the CAN BUS as to what the key position is (ACC, RUN, START, etc).

Once the TIPM has the 12v from ignition switch and the proper start message from the WCM, it starts the starter motor by activating the relay starter which sends 12v to the starter solenoid. Which then turns the starter and Engine.

The best way to start testing this is to plug a scanner in to the Jeep and view live data for the TIPM and the WCM. JSCAN can do this at low price point. You can find the data PIDs in the TIPM for the 12v and for the key position. This will tell you if your ignition switch and WCM is operating properly and then you can focus on the TIPM and it's relays.

If you don't have a scanner, I'd look at that K3 relay. There are ways to test that relay or the socket the relay sits in but that will be another post if necessary. It won't tell you everything but may help break the system into small sections to test.

Also some other things to check that may be easy that are part of this starting system:
- K4 relay. This is the run/start relay and provides power to the ECM in Start and shares control power with K3.
- M33 fuse. This is the fuse for power to the PCM when in start
- M27 fuse. Power to the ignition switch
- F13 fuse. Power to the WCM
- M13 fuse. Power to the WCM

Hope that helps...let us know what you find.
- M28 Fuse. Power to the PCM

 

If you don't have a scanner, I'd look at that K3 relay. There are ways to test that relay or the socket the relay sits in but that will be another post if necessary. It won't tell you everything but may help break the system into small sections to test.

Sorry to revive an old thread, but @sequel do u mind explaining these ways to "test the socket"? I get power at the 30 pin connector, but none of the other pins. I have a no crank situation. And/or no start when jumping the starter directly from the battery or I can use jumper on K3 from 30 to 87. But either method just gets crank and no start even with key turned to Start and/or On position. I've been chasing Gremlins for over a month now. But my extra ride is goin away and I've gotta get the monster back to life Soon™.

Thanx in advance.

Pooch

Oh yeah
2013 JKU RHD A/T no mods except stereo

 

A fellow mailman and somewhat forced owner of another RHD JKU was helping me out a couple days ago and he had his scan tool. These were the results.

Stored Codes
P0123
P0222

Permanent Codes
P0306
P0457
P0456
P0108
P2308
P0520
P0300
P0303

It also had some other info but these were the codes it was showing.

Pulled the codes off the dash a earlier tonite. Here are those results.
P0685
P0688
P0335
P0123
P0222
P2111

Also I just happened across another thread u had commented on(u are quite prolific👍🏼👍🏼 And a great boon to this community) concerning the ASD. This has been on my mind from early on do the way it all stopped working. Had to jump it 2 days in a row. On 3rd day went to jump again and it started and died, started and died, started and died. On the 4th key turn no crank. And none since then. I was going back over the asd relay earlier today and the relay is in good shape. My question is more how does it function? I noticed with the multimeter when I first turn the key on it powers up the relay and the fuse in line with it. Then after 3-4 seconds it falls back to negligible numbers. Is this working as intended or should the relay/fuse continue to receive the 12+ volts?

Sorry for the novel. But it’s very refreshing to converse with some one knowledgeable about JKs and all their quirks. So thank again for all the info u have provided so far. ✌🏼✌🏼

Pooch

 

Wow, that's a lot of codes. You need to pick a spot to start diagnosing and I don't think ASD is where the problem lies. The ASD relay is just a way for the computer to shut down key components when the computer senses something wrong or wants to shut down the engine. Things like the injectors and ignition coils are on the load side of that relay. The control side of the relay is handled by PCM grounding the coil. I am not 100% sure but think in your case the computer is shutting down the ASD for valid reasons.

You have a lot of codes. One that will cause the computer to shut things down is no crank sensor signal. You have a P0335 that may be the reason. You also have a MAP sensor issue (P0108) and throttle position codes (P0123, P0222). I am not sure those 2 would cause the engine not to start but they are pretty critical. I would start with those in my diagnosing and see if some of the codes may be related. For example the wiring diagram of the MAP sensor and the Oil Pressure Sensor share a ground.

Here is a list of the codes and meaning...looked up by the factory service manual. Sometimes you look them up online and you get incorrect descriptions.

Stored Codes
P0123 THROTTLE POSITION SENSOR 1 CIRCUIT HIGH
P0222 THROTTLE POSITION SENSOR 2 CIRCUIT LOW

Permanent Codes
P0306 CYLINDER 6 MISFIRE
P0457 LOOSE FUEL CAP
P0456 EVAP SYSTEM SMALL LEAK
P0108 MANIFOLD ABSOLUTE PRESSURE SENSOR CIRCUIT HIGH
P2308 IGNITION COIL 3 SECONDARY CIRCUIT - INSUFFICIENT IONIZATION
P0520 ENGINE OIL PRESSURE SENSOR CIRCUIT
P0300 MULTIPLE CYLINDER MISFIRE
P0303 CYLINDER 3 MISFIRE

It also had some other info but these were the codes it was showing.

Pulled the codes off the dash a earlier tonite. Here are those results.
P0685 AUTO SHUTDOWN RELAY CONTROL CIRCUIT
P0688 AUTO SHUTDOWN RELAY SENSE CIRCUIT LOW
P0335 CRANKSHAFT POSITION SENSOR CIRCUIT
P0123 THROTTLE POSITION SENSOR 1 CIRCUIT HIGH
P0222 THROTTLE POSITION SENSOR 2 CIRCUIT LOW
P2111 ELECTRONIC THROTTLE CONTROL - UNABLE TO CLOSE

 

Sequel,
I hope your still active? I need some help with my 2011 jk. Doing a swap and I need an ignition power from the key. Not accessory or on, but to crankshaft the engine? Any help would be greatly appreciated?
Rob

 

I’m gonna go out on a limb and say that’s not what that is supposed to look like…

 

What is this?

 

You may want to look into the bore and see if the tone ring is messed up. Being inside of the engine, I would hope it's pretty safe.

 

Welcome to the Forum @JETPYLOT33

Sequel hasn't been on the forum in over a year.

It's best if you start your own thread and give all the info about your Jeep\, your issue and what you've sone so far for a cure.
The more info you provide the more accurate responses you'll get.

Good Luck, L.M.

 

Thank you. Will do that.