[Commo]

Commo... are they implying the silicon increase is due to the air filter? At what mileage intervals did you change the air filter?

.

I don't think they're implying that but maybe I can get their thoughts and report back. It'll be interesting to get the UOA on the next change to see where Silicon is headed..

I've changed the air filter at 15k and 30k, using Mopar filters. That is half the recommendation btw.

I'm looking at it as part of the 'severe duty' cycle which calls for the oil change at 4,000 miles, so it seems logical also to change the air filter at about half of the normal spec, especially since I'm seeing lots of dust on the northern Michigan roads.

The air filter didn't look bad at all, dusty with the usual chaff and a couple dead bugs...

Did you hit 20k yet and have a UOA done?

Commo

 

[m998dna]

I don't think they're implying that but maybe I can get their thoughts and report back. It'll be interesting to get the UOA on the next change to see where Silicon is headed..

I've changed the air filter at 15k and 30k, using Mopar filters. That is half the recommendation btw.

I'm looking at it as part of the 'severe duty' cycle which calls for the oil change at 4,000 miles, so it seems logical also to change the air filter at about half of the normal spec, especially since I'm seeing lots of dust on the northern Michigan roads.

The air filter didn't look bad at all, dusty with the usual chaff and a couple dead bugs...

Did you hit 20k yet and have a UOA done?

Commo

I'm at 18,000 right now... I'll probably hit 20K in December. I have my test kit here ready and waiting.

What do you do to get a good sample? They mention to drive it 20 min or so.

.

 

[Commo]

I'm at 18,000 right now... I'll probably hit 20K in December. I have my test kit here ready and waiting.

What do you do to get a good sample? They mention to drive it 20 min or so.

.

I do drive the Jeep a while so that the oil is hot when I drain it, and also follow their recommendation to sample the oil neither at the beginning nor the end of the drain cycle.. so I just unscrew the drain plug, put it down and by the time I get the sample bottle in place it's drained for a few seconds.

The gush of oil will fill that little bottle in about 1/2 second, so I'm ready to pull it out of the stream almost immediately

There will be some oil drippage on the sample bottle so I have paper towels ready so I can screw the lid on right away and wipe it down.

Commo

 

[m998dna]

I do drive the Jeep a while so that the oil is hot when I drain it, and also follow their recommendation to sample the oil neither at the beginning nor the end of the drain cycle.. so I just unscrew the drain plug, put it down and by the time I get the sample bottle in place it's drained for a few seconds.

The gush of oil will fill that little bottle in about 1/2 second, so I'm ready to pull it out of the stream almost immediately

There will be some oil drippage on the sample bottle so I have paper towels ready so I can screw the lid on right away and wipe it down.

Commo

OK, here's the beef...

I pulled my sample today at 19,958 for the Pennzoil Ultra Platinum Pure Plus UOA... I have 5K miles on this particular fill - Pennzoil Ultra Platinum Pure Plus 5w30..

I will ship this out on Saturday...

This will serve to document I filled the crankcase with Pennzoil Ultra Platinum Pure Plus 5w20 for the next 5K miles and run a comparison to Pennzoil Ultra Platinum Pure Plus 5w30.

Results forthcoming..

.

 

[Commo]

Consider it documented..

Looking forward to it!

Commo

 

[ADee1]

OK, here's the beef...

I pulled my sample today at 19,958 for the Pennzoil Ultra Platinum Pure Plus UOA... I have 5K miles on this particular fill - Pennzoil Ultra Platinum Pure Plus 5w30..

I will ship this out on Saturday...

This will serve to document I filled the crankcase with Pennzoil Ultra Platinum Pure Plus 5w20 for the next 5K miles and run a comparison to Pennzoil Ultra Platinum Pure Plus 5w30.

Results forthcoming..

.

That will be good to see.

 

[m998dna]

Consider it documented..

Looking forward to it!

Commo

USPS is a PITA....

I hope I don't go to jail.

.

 

[m998dna]

OK, here's the beef...

I pulled my sample today at 19,958 for the Pennzoil Ultra Platinum Pure Plus UOA... I have 5K miles on this particular fill - Pennzoil Ultra Platinum Pure Plus 5w30..

I will ship this out on Saturday...

This will serve to document I filled the crankcase with Pennzoil Ultra Platinum Pure Plus 5w20 for the next 5K miles and run a comparison to Pennzoil Ultra Platinum Pure Plus 5w30.

Results forthcoming..

Consider it documented..

Looking forward to it!

Commo

Here's my results .... Commo / demarpaint please interpret.

.

 

[demarpaint]

^^ The report looks good, especially for an engine with under 25K miles on it. Silicon is most likely from sealers and gasket material, however I would have a look at all plumbing from the air box to the throttle body and make sure nothing is loose or allowing unfiltered air to enter the engine. The copper is most likely from the oil cooler, it is not coming from engine bearings. That reading might not ever drop down. I'd consider it normal. You can do another UOA next time you change the oil and see how things are trending. The PU 5W30 is doing well.

 

[Commo]

Traveling -- will get a better look soon. Thanks for adding to The Oil Knowledge..

Commo

 

[Commo]

Side-by-side UOAs

Sorry for the delay in responding:

Here's an imperfectly joined UOA comparo of my 5w20 report with 998's 5w30 report -- can't claim to know enough about all this to do much cogent analysis, but interesting to compare the numbers.

One thing I see (but don't understand significance of) is the viscosity numbers...mine seem to be on the high side while the 5w30 is lower in its range..




The additive numbers seem fairly close, which is logical. What do you think?

But I don't think it answers the age-old question: Should I use 5w20 or 5w30?? :bop:

Commo

 

[stumblinhorse]

Did you measure/notice any difference in mpg. Because it truly looks like there is no difference, maybe just to squeeze a half of a MPG?

 

[Commo]

On a sustained freeway trip (Michigan, elevation 600-1300 feet) I get between 19 & 20 mpg. Sometimes it seems to creep up toward 21mpg..

Other situations lower, of course. That's with 5w20 but there are so many variables I can't claim it's because I use 'thinner' oil..

Commo

 

[demarpaint]

On a sustained freeway trip (Michigan, elevation 600-1300 feet) I get between 19 & 20 mpg. Sometimes it seems to creep up toward 21mpg..

Other situations lower, of course. That's with 5w20 but there are so many variables I can't claim it's because I use 'thinner' oil..

Commo

There are so many variables that can impact mpg, its hard to say. The thinner oil helps, which is why there's such a big push toward them. The problem is the average person is not capable of noticing a difference between the two grades in all honesty. But if you run a fleet of hundreds or thousands of cars it could add up. Honestly you'll probably gain more mpg by slightly over inflating your tires.

The only major difference between the two UOA's is copper, which is probably still shedding from m998dna's oil cooler. Yours had a touch more SI, but we're talking Parts Per Million so I doubt it means anything. Since both Jeeps were used under different conditions comparing is very hard. A better comparsion would be switching viscosity in both vehicles and compare that way. The only problem with that is it would have to be done over several OCI's. You'd need one OCI just to flush out the old 5W20 in your case, and one OCI to flush the 5W30 in the other Jeep. Short trips in cold weather will show higher wear numbers, long freeway runs when the engine reaches operating temps will show lower numbers.

With regard to viscosity, PU 5W30 is on the thinner side for a 5W30. As far as thick vs. thin, that's a battle I don't want to get into. Both oils did their job well. The 30 grade has an advantage in extreme heat, towing, stop and go traffic, or if something goes wrong like the thermostat fails and the engine overheats. In a situation like overheating it might only buy you a little time. The Pentastar runs hot, I'd lean toward the 5W30. Some people claim 5W20 cools better, I feel the 5W30 provides a bit more of a cushion between parts. I recently saw a video about GM discussing 5W20 vs. 5W30 and they said they found in turbo applications 5W30 cooled the turbo better. But like I said both oils did well, and according to the TBN they could have been used for a longer time.

You could probably flip a coin. Or if you live where it gets cold in the winter and hot in the summer use 5W20 in the winter and switch to 5W30 for the summer.

The UOA is a useful tool to monitor an engine and see if dirt is entering, excess fuel or coolant, or if there's some major spike in wear metals. It isn't useful in determining engine wear, only a tear down can do that.

There are guys on Bitog who are much better than me at analyzing these reports. Good stuff, thanks for posting!

 

[m998dna]

There are so many variables that can impact mpg, its hard to say. The thinner oil helps, which is why there's such a big push toward them. The problem is the average person is not capable of noticing a difference between the two grades in all honesty. But if you run a fleet of hundreds or thousands of cars it could add up. Honestly you'll probably gain more mpg by slightly over inflating your tires.

The only major difference between the two UOA's is copper, which is probably still shedding from m998dna's oil cooler. Yours had a touch more SI, but we're talking Parts Per Million so I doubt it means anything. Since both Jeeps were used under different conditions comparing is very hard. A better comparsion would be switching viscosity in both vehicles and compare that way. The only problem with that is it would have to be done over several OCI's. You'd need one OCI just to flush out the old 5W20 in your case, and one OCI to flush the 5W30 in the other Jeep. Short trips in cold weather will show higher wear numbers, long freeway runs when the engine reaches operating temps will show lower numbers.

With regard to viscosity, PU 5W30 is on the thinner side for a 5W30. As far as thick vs. thin, that's a battle I don't want to get into. Both oils did their job well. The 30 grade has an advantage in extreme heat, towing, stop and go traffic, or if something goes wrong like the thermostat fails and the engine overheats. In a situation like overheating it might only buy you a little time. The Pentastar runs hot, I'd lean toward the 5W30. Some people claim 5W20 cools better, I feel the 5W30 provides a bit more of a cushion between parts. I recently saw a video about GM discussing 5W20 vs. 5W30 and they said they found in turbo applications 5W30 cooled the turbo better. But like I said both oils did well, and according to the TBN they could have been used for a longer time.

You could probably flip a coin. Or if you live where it gets cold in the winter and hot in the summer use 5W20 in the winter and switch to 5W30 for the summer.

The UOA is a useful tool to monitor an engine and see if dirt is entering, excess fuel or coolant, or if there's some major spike in wear metals. It isn't useful in determining engine wear, only a tear down can do that.

There are guys on Bitog who are much better than me at analyzing these reports. Good stuff, thanks for posting!

Thanks amigo!



.

 

[m998dna]

Sorry for the delay in responding:

Here's an imperfectly joined UOA comparo of my 5w20 report with 998's 5w30 report -- can't claim to know enough about all this to do much cogent analysis, but interesting to compare the numbers.

One thing I see (but don't understand significance of) is the viscosity numbers...mine seem to be on the high side while the 5w30 is lower in its range..




The additive numbers seem fairly close, which is logical. What do you think?

But I don't think it answers the age-old question: Should I use 5w20 or 5w30?? :bop:

Commo

Commo.. Thanks for superimposing those. I was going to say your numbers look better than mine - but Demar came in to clarify. My first thought when I compared our reports was why Blackstone gave me an excellent report but was picking on your 9 ppm silicon numbers? Lol..

Perhaps they need to add some color when they see 2 ppm change..

I wish they would tack happy or sad faces next to each result.. that way I won't lose any sleep.

.

 

[demarpaint]

Thanks amigo!



.

Any time buddy!

 

[m998dna]

Any time buddy!

I still owe you a test run at 65 mph going over a set of railroad tracks while the criuse control is set..

I know where.. just need to find a nice gap in traffic..



.

 

[demarpaint]

I still owe you a test run at 65 mph going over a set of railroad tracks while the criuse control is set..

I know where.. just need to find a nice gap in traffic..



.

LOL Give me a shout when you get some free time.

 

[redneckdan]

My 'change oil soon' light just came on at about 5900 miles on this oil change. I was planning to run it out to 7000. I'll probably change it this weekend to see what the UOA says.