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christofurg

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
Okay, first of all... this Jeep has me contemplating suicide. Literally, I want to put a .40 in my head because of it.

The breakdown...

I drive my 31 mile commute to work one morning in my 4.0 5 speed Wrangler behaves like it does any other day. No noises (other than the sound of it slowly rusting), no quirks, problems of any sort mechanically. After my exciting eight hour shift of computers making me want to hang myself, I'm done and head to my trusty Wrangler to drive the 31 mile commute home.

I drive about a mile down the road when I start to realize I'm having difficulty getting into gear. I think perhaps I'm just being lazy with my foot and not pressing the clutch in all the way. I convinced myself that was the issue and the next time I need to shift I'll be more conscious of my footwork. Well, the next time I shift, I press the pedal to the floor and it's still difficult to get into gear. So happens that particular shift was in fact the last shift I was able to perform while the engine was running.

I pulled to the side of the road and fought with the shifter until giving up and shutting it down. Ended up calling my wife to come get me. While I was sitting there in defeat, figured since I could get the transmission in gear while the engine was off I'd try starting it while the Jeep was in gear. Welp, it lunged forward of course, and the starter motor provided me enough speed to get me going until the engine took over. I was in second gear, max speed of 28 mph and no ability to stop as I had no clutch, 30 miles home this way.

I was confused as to what the problem was as I knew throwout bearings exhibit a slow onset of issues, particularly noise as you pressed the clutch pedal. Despite the rapid onset, I figured the throwout bearing is what the was. I took the Jeep to my garage and headed to the nearest Pep Boys for a LUK clutch kit. The clutch kit was opened, but everything was there, and to my surprise, the clutch kit came with a METAL throwout bearing despite the kit saying "Made in Mexico" on the box.

I headed out of the store complete with slide hammer and pilot bearing puller. The next day I started removing everything needed to yank the transmission. Once yanked, I noticed the clutch release fork was missing the clip that holds it on to where it pivots on the ball inside the bellhousing. This caused the fork to just teeter on the transmission input yoke sleeve if you will. I also noticed the clutch was missing a spring (which explains why this thing always shuttered if I didn't ride the clutch).

The installation...

Fine. New stuff anyway. I take the pressure plate off the flywheel. Remove old pilot bearing and install the new one using socket flush with the flywheel. Clean the flywheel, clean the new pressure plate and take the new clutch spring side facing away from engine and install it using the alignment tool. I then bolt on the pressure plate, applying red thread locker to all the bolts and torque it down pretty tight. I then test the alignment by removing the alignment tool and putting it back in. Butter.

Now I move on to the throwout bearing which has seen its better day anyway. I clean the release fork off, light film of grease at the contact points where the throwout bearing meets the fork, light grease at pivot point and slave cylinder contact, light film on bearing face that meets pressure plate and light film on input shaft sleeve where the pilot bearing rides.

Transmission goes in after a 4-hour bout of rockem' sockem' style fighting, during which I almost hung myself, sliced my wrists and setting the thing on fire. Got the transmission in, this time putting in the shroud that wasn't there in the first place (got it from a salvage yard). Installed all the stuff I had to remove, starter, slave, CPS, wiring, driveshafts, crossmember. Had to tap the driver's side nutserts as the threads inside of them turned to powder when I took the bolts out.

I go to start the Jeep and hear a HORRIBLE grinding sound. Transmission wasn't even in gear. As I let the clutch out it got worse and I quickly shut it down. It must have woken up every dog in the neighborhood the sound was so horrid.

So my question is, what the frigg did I do wrong? This isn't my first rodeo...I did a throwout bearing / clutch job on my Mustang with great success.

Here are some pics for yalls enjoyment. I'm aware some bolts are missing on the new pressure plate. This pic was taken halfway through it's attachment. All bolts are installed.

Image
 
I had a similar issue. After installing a new LUK clutch kit , when I turned the jeep on it immediately made a loud screeching sound that did not go away. I dropped the transmission back down and realized that I did not torque down the bolts on the pressure plate to the exact specs, which is 38ft lbs. The flywheel bolts is 105ft lbs as well. Hope this helps!
 
Discussion starter · #4 ·
I had a similar issue. After installing a new LUK clutch kit , when I turned the jeep on it immediately made a loud screeching sound that did not go away. I dropped the transmission back down and realized that I did not torque down the bolts on the pressure plate to the exact specs, which is 38ft lbs. The flywheel bolts is 105ft lbs as well. Hope this helps!
Thanks for your reply. Were the pressure plate bolts hitting your bellhousing or something? I torqued my pressure plat bolts to good n' tight... not to spec. So it's possible. I didn't mess with the flywheel bolts at all though. Didn't take the flywheel off.
 
When you installed the tranny and were struggling did you manually wiggle the tranny all the way on till there was no gap between bell and engine or did you just get it close enough to start some bolts and then use bolt tightening to get it the last 1/2 inch or so forward

If you used bolts that could easily be your problem as the axial load you apply tightening the bolts can easily damage components

A common error that some people get away with some times but a bad way to go
 
Also if truly having serious thoughts of killing yourself seek professional help now as it solves nothing and creates a mess and emotional distress for all those who care about you and are left to resolve issues that they would have much preferred to address with you still around

It helps no one and solves nothing but sometime circumstances cloud immediate judgement and outside help is needed
 
Are you sure your transfer case is fully in 2wd?
Never mind, I missed the part where you said you had the clutch in when you started it.

It does look like your release arm is installed backwards, but I doubt that is the reason for your issue. It just means that the spring clip slots are relocated.

I noticed in your picture of the pressure plate, that some bolts were missing. Were all bolts installed and brought down evenly as the pressure plate was bolted up?

Is the "hub" side of the clutch plate facing the pressure plate side? Here is a picture of one that is correct. Maybe it will help.

Also, as Digger84 mentioned, it is extremely important to not place axial loads on the input shaft as the transmission is slid back in place.
 

Attachments

Thanks for your reply. Were the pressure plate bolts hitting your bellhousing or something? I torqued my pressure plat bolts to good n' tight... not to spec. So it's possible. I didn't mess with the flywheel bolts at all though. Didn't take the flywheel off.
No they weren't. I did the same thing as you at first and I tightened them
as I saw fit but the uneven pressure caused the teeth to not align correctly. I too was on the verge of giving up but when I realized this, I just dropped the transmission, torqued to spec and it worked perfectly.
 
Discussion starter · #10 ·
When you installed the tranny and were struggling did you manually wiggle the tranny all the way on till there was no gap between bell and engine or did you just get it close enough to start some bolts and then use bolt tightening to get it the last 1/2 inch or so forward

If you used bolts that could easily be your problem as the axial load you apply tightening the bolts can easily damage components

A common error that some people get away with some times but a bad way to go
I only used the two side bolts to "align" the transmission, they were in no way used as comealongs to pull the transmission back into place. I figured if the transmission didn't want to "slide home" there was a reason for it and that forcing it with the bolts was a bad idea. I got the bell housing about 1/2 away from the engine until I started my battle. Eventually it slid home on its own just with me adjusting height, wigging, etc.
 
Discussion starter · #11 ·
Never mind, I missed the part where you said you had the clutch in when you started it.

It does look like your release arm is installed backwards, but I doubt that is the reason for your issue. It just means that the spring clip slots are relocated.

I noticed in your picture of the pressure plate, that some bolts were missing. Were all bolts installed and brought down evenly as the pressure plate was bolted up?

Is the "hub" side of the clutch plate facing the pressure plate side? Here is a picture of one that is correct. Maybe it will help.

Also, as Digger84 mentioned, it is extremely important to not place axial loads on the input shaft as the transmission is slid back in place.
All the pressure plate bolts were installed, I had just taken my photo halfway through installing all the bolts. The hub side (spring side) of the clutch was facing the pressure plate.
 
Discussion starter · #12 ·
I told myself I wouldn't do it and just have it towed by a buddy of mine went back last night and took two hours and removed the transmission, pressure plate, clutch and this time flywheel. Bad news is I can't find ANY evidence of interference (score marks, rubbing, etc). I thought for sure it would be the sheet metal "shroud" that I had gotten from a Jeep junk yard that goes between the engine and bell housing as this part wasn't there before but it there were no visible marks on it. Not good, as now I don't know what was causing the noise. My friend did say that my flywheel was glazed in spots and needs to be surfaced so I'm going to have that done. Any possibility it could have been that? Also do the pressure plate bolts need to go in specific spots? I watched a video on youtube by a guy by the name of "ihateallgingers" where he said three of the pressure plate bolts are "pilot bolts" and need to be installed in specific areas of the pressure plate to locate it. See video here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BS4abyp0zfk

1:03:38 is where he mentions the pilot bolts



So this time I'll torque everything down to spec (anyone know the torque specs for Flywheel) and also reverse my release fork.
 
Do not resurface as the 4.0 flywheel has a dome shape that resurfacing removes

Emory skiff or replace


Pretending that minor under torque of bolts did it is magical thinking as guy actually fixed something else he was just not aware but no physical way what he said happened was due to what he thinks it was
but redoing install did correct something
 
Loose blots can make slip

If nothing rubbing my guess is you damaged tranny with axial load pulling tranny on with bolts

As for bolts all the same so not an issue

The flywheel to engine bolt circle is slightly asymmetric so only goes on with holes aligned in one spin alignment which is needed to index timing marks for crank angle sensor on edge of flywheel to crank rotational position
 
On the pressure plate bolts if he was actually careless enough to get the plate installed with a tilt so one side against the flywheel/clutch disc and other side with a gap that would cause problems related to pressure plate bolts but should be obvious on visual inspection

but I suppose using a patterned application of a torque wrench could have avoided doing it again on reinstall

But again a visual inspection of your work is always prudent
 
Discussion starter · #17 ·
Um, okay, I'm new here and don't mean to be rude... but I really wish people would read what I'm taking the time to write.

-I didn't "pull" the transmission in with the bolts. I've already explained that.

-I didn't install the clutch wrong. Covered that in my first post: "take the new clutch spring side facing away from engine and install it using the alignment tool."

-Despite the missing pressure plate bolts in the first picture they're all installed
 
If we discount the suicide reference and believe clutch was properly installed and parts are all OK then the logical conclusion was original problem was and still is tranny related

Still a bad idea to resurface a domed flywheel
But if you don't believe me it is clearly written in the factory service manual not to resurface
 
Discussion starter · #20 ·
If we discount the suicide reference and believe clutch was properly installed and parts are all OK then the logical conclusion was original problem was and still is tranny related

Still a bad idea to resurface a domed flywheel
But if you don't believe me it is clearly written in the factory service manual not to resurface
Do you know why they domed the flywheel? I read it's to make clutch engagement more "subtle". Do we have any evidence that a new aftermarket flywheel has the same domed profile? No reason not to get my OEM flywheel resurfaced if it can't be proven the aftermarket domes their flywheels. As far as my OEM flywheel is concerned, that dome is probably long gone. I've read comments from other Wrangler owners that they've had their flywheel resurfaced and didn't notice any ill effects.

Kind of off topic... I'm just curious to know if the flywheel being glazed can cause the noise I heard. Maybe its so glazed that the clutch can't grab it and its making that metal on metal sound even though it's metal on fiber. Kind of left with grasping at straws here since I was expecting to see score marks or broken parts or some evidence as to what was causing the interference and I see nothing.
 
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