[87_WhyJay]

Exact Same codes, YES!!!

Yes, I have had that exact same problem. Did the exact same thing replacing the sensors twice. Once by Napa Auto Care Center for $650 (returned after it didn’t fix it) and the next time, the dealership replaced them under warranty, not believing I had replaced them prior and was giving the same codes.

Mine “WAS” a 2014 Rubicon Unlimited. At 78,000’ish miles, just before the 80,000 engine warranty was past, so it was all on Jeep. After the dealership replaced the sensors the for the second time and found out it did not solve the problem, they started looking deeper. When they told me what they had found, I almost called them liars. I said “No Way that could cause what I was experiencing.” BUT it was. What they found was an oil galley plug, in the front of the block had backed out and fallen into the bottom of the pan. The oil from that galley was supposed to go up to the cam adjusters and doing the work of adjusting the cam shafts when the plug was in. When it fell out, the oil was going into the timing chain cover and back into the pan. So they said and I believed them. So, they put another oil plug in and the problem was gone. I actually went back and apologized to them and gave EVERYBODY involved a $20.00 tip for being EXCELLENT at diagnosis.

What I should have done is junked the car right then and there. What that oil galley is/was, is the main oil supply galley for the lubrication of the cam shafts. ALL 4 OF THEM had been starved for oil for a month while this was going on!! This work was done at 78,000 miles and at 107, 000 miles, my cam shafts and followers/lifter or whatever they are calling them now, FAILED. The dealership had talked me into buying a 3 year, unlimited mileage, extended warranty which I was very glad I did. At 107,000 miles, the engine was still covered when I had to have 2 of my 4 cam’s replaced. $100 instead of $3500.

Needless to say, I no longer trusted this engine to go around the block, let alone across the country. After they replaced the 2 cams (not allowing me to see what the other two cams they left in looked like) I traded it in on a 2018 Recon Unlimited about 6 weeks ago. I considered it JUNK!!!

Anyway, mine jumped into limp mode and lights came on going up a 1-4 percent grade while on cruise control. Never happened when I was using the throttle myself, only on cruise. That part doesn’t make sense to me. BUT, that plug is under the timing gear cover, somewhere around the timing chain.

 

[87_WhyJay]

Oh, one other thing. I pulled over, turned the engine off and restarted it. This would take it out of limp mode but the CHECK ENGINE light would remain on. The ESP light did not come back on. As long as I didn't turn on the cruise, it drove fine. If I used the cruise and went up a slight grade, it did it again.

 

[87_WhyJay]

No, my CEL stayed on until I turned it off with my OBDII reader. Then it would stay off until the next time the gremlin reappeared. The ESP light would go out and stay out until the next appearance.

 

[87_WhyJay]

Is this galley plug very noticeable or did you have any noticeable oil leak along with it?

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

No leaks what-so-ever. It is under the timing gear/chain cover which is completely oil lubricated and sealed. Just is going there instead of up to the cams.

 

[87_WhyJay]

I got ya. I've kinda done the same and was coming up empty handed so I wanted to check. Did they find it in the oil pan?

When I take it in I'm just going to run through scenarios as detailed as I can with them. Since I'm like 99% sure the one thing that won't fix it is replacing the camshaft position sensors haha.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

They said "it disappeared"!?! They don't know what happened to it. I'm betting "They didn't even check the pan for the plug". If they had called me down to see in the inside of my engine, pan, cams, timing gear/chain area, and then told me they can't find it, I could believe them. They didn't and I don't trust them as far as I can throw them. That's why I traded it in on one that HOPEFULLY, will make the 500,000 miles I was trying to get that engine to go. Maybe I should have dropped in one of RubiTrux' take out 3.6 motors for $5000. They claim less than 2500 miles on them.

 

[87_WhyJay]

The reason the sensors are throwing error messages is because of the low oil pressure going up to the cams and sensors, the cam timing is delayed until the oil pump gets this message and pumps more oil to compensate. This causes the main computer to assume one or more of the sensors are going out. I put my computer to monitor the oil pressure while this was going on and never saw anything out of the normal range. The oil pump can keep up a little, but there is no oil pressure sensors at the top end of the engine, only in the galleys in the bottom, below the plug leak. I am sure that my cams were running at or below minimal oil pressure or they would not have failed 40,000 miles later. AND, If they had allowed me to look at the cam shafts in the first place, I am positive you would have seen the premature wear on them.

 

[87_WhyJay]

I got ya. I've kinda done the same and was coming up empty handed so I wanted to check. Did they find it in the oil pan?

When I take it in I'm just going to run through scenarios as detailed as I can with them. Since I'm like 99% sure the one thing that won't fix it is replacing the camshaft position sensors haha.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

If you guys are not finding it on U-Tube video's, it must be a very rare situation. The problem is I had "nothing to put on video" as the tech's at the dealership did everything in secret and just fixed it, SO THEY SAID! In hindsight, I should have told them to call me when the find the problem and before they put the engine back to together so I can see it's condition, but THEY (Dealerships) DON'T DO SUCH NICE THINGS FOR THE OWNERS OF THEIR PRODUCTS. I'm going to buy a horse and moved to where Dr. Pol lives. He keeps his customers informed. Not FCA..

 

[87_WhyJay]

Hey guys i got a 2013 rubicon unlimited manual shift, 4.88, 4.5 in lift, 35x12.50 tire alpine control arms teraflex track bars front and rear and adams 1350 driveshafts.

Aligned by someone that specifically deals with JKs.

Driving on the highway for any amount of time my check engine and ESP lights come on and my jeep goes into limp mode. I get 2 codes shown in the pictures. It makes it difficult to shift by delaying my gas by a second and killing power (engine doesn't keep accelerating, i HAVE to shift) after i reach certain RPMs. Also as I let go of the gas the jeep bucks on me so i have to put my foot on the gas and lt it off very slowly or press the clutch in to put the engine in neutral.

Does anyone have experience in this and if so how was this situation resolved? Its been going on since i put the new gears in. I have a flashpaq 5 and reprogrammed the tire size and gear ratio. I'm getting to the point where I'm about to sell this dang jeep.
Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

Hey MMello13, how long after you put the gears in and reprogrammed did this start? This is the only thing that isn't adding up to me. It might be just unbelievable poor timing of the situation or it MIGHT be something else related to the work you've done. Was it instant the first time you took it out or did you have a few weeks of problem free driving?

 

[87_WhyJay]

Oh, Ive got a story for you... I had these same codes just a two weeks ago, and I fixed it!

I have a 2013 JKU that had thrown these three codes one day after some light wheeling, and a few mud puddles, nothing crazy. P0344 points to the passenger side camshaft (not crankshaft) sensor, and the others are related to Torque Request and fail. My research shows that many people with similar problems throw thousands of dollars into trying to fix it and never get anywhere.

The Camshaft position sensor mounts to that threaded portion in the top of that hole, and I believe it uses that metal lobe below it to sense the cam position. It is smooth, round, and only one 1/4" flat spot. But here is where it gets interesting. There's a few strips of weird silver grease on it (see photo). It kinda looks and feels like Never-Seize, but this is an untouched engine. What does the factory use that's silvery in assembly? The silver stuff must be throwing off the magnetic sensor. A wipe down while turning the crankshaft, a battery reset, and all is right with the world.

So TLDR, If you start getting sensor failures, also check WHAT it is sensing.

I am guessing it is similar to what I use called Anti-Seize and they are using for assembly lube. The only problem I see is that if that lube were going to give a false reading or mess things up, it would have done it closer to the beginning ownership. I had my 14 Rubi since new and the problem reared it's ugly head at 78,000 miles. It persisted through 2 sets of sensors and was shot dead by the dealership finding an unplugged oil galley hole in the front of the block. When they put a plug back into the hole, the problems instantly went away. Then 20,000 or so miles later, 2 of my 4 cams and all the followers failed and were replaced. No more ticking sounds. All I am saying, is evidence is evidence. It all points to somewhere. In my training and experience (Arizona Automotive Inst. trade school and 15 years experience working as a mechanic), it points to oil starvation of the cam shafts due to an unplugged oil galley. Even the cam sensors giving the codes of going out. Delayed actuation due to low oil pressure to the adjuster mechanisms.

 

[87_WhyJay]

If i recall correctly it came on immediately. Sometimes it comes in after driving 5 minutes on the highway and there's been times since that i drove to lincoln new hampshire and back and never saw it. That's a 4 hr drive each way. So my guess is that its a wiring problem rather than pressure problem considering the randomness. Also praying the same. Lmao its been about a year and no one can figure it out but i don't have money to throw away on the dealership.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

Believe me, if my '14 wasn't still under warranty at 78,000 miles, I would have never gone to the dealership either. After Napa Auto Care experts missed fixing it, they suggested a dealership because it "MIGHT" still be covered under the 80,000 drive train warranty. After checking, it was, so they had a shot at it. First fix was 100% on FCA. They then talked me into 3 year unlimited mileage extended warranty and that 'still small voice' in the back of my head said, "GET IT!" Next fix was $100 deductible. If not for that, I would have been doing it myself also.



Has anybody searched to see if there is a TSB on this plug falling out and the symptoms it causes? The first visit to the dealership to repair the missing plug said they were going to turn one in because it is so rare and so devastating on an engine. Maybe it's time to turn to 'Jeep Cares' or one of the Mopar support teams here on WF for some advice and help.

 

[87_WhyJay]

"BUMMER"

If I were in your shoes, my next step would be to buy a MOPAR shop manual for your beast, invest in the gaskets/seals, hoses, belt, water pump, alignment pulleys, and anything else that could be changed on my way in to remove the timing chain/gear cover and do what I call a "look-see" Kind of like exploratory surgery. Expect everything that might cause you problems in the future, gets replaced so you can "TRUST" 100%, that "THAT PART" isn't going to give you any trouble. I usually do that at 100,000 miles "just because". I even do the fan motor, thermostat, and anything related to cooling. If I don't, I guarantee you when a part fails and leaves me stranded, it won't be in front of a reputable repair facility. It will be someplace like 1/2 through the Rubicon Trail or out on Sledge Hammer in the middle of August in 125 degree weather.

 

[87_WhyJay]

Well, I guess you are where I call, "Between a rock and a hard place!" If you were a little closer to the Pacific Time Zone, I would offer to hep. BUT, logistically, it's not very practical. Good Lock. I will continue to follow this thread and IF you find out what's causing this ..... GLITCH..... Let us all know. If you start hearing what I identified as "lifter noise" (light, slight, quiet, subtle ticking noise coming from the top of the engine) that is a very bad thing. That's what I heard when my cams failed at 107,000 miles. Again, good luck.