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Winston_Smith

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
First, a little background on my Jeep. It's a 2013 Wrangler Sport, manual shift transmission, 63,000 miles. I bought it new 5 years, 11 months and three weeks ago. Aside from a sheared traction control sensor wire to the right front wheel a few years ago, I've never had ANY trouble with this rig. New battery two months ago. So, yesterday morning, up here north of Boston, it was kind of cold. Not arctic, but cold. 24°F. I hadn't run the Jeep for a couple days but that's pretty normal. I think I drove it Saturday. Less than 1/8 of a tank of gas.

Anyways. Yesterday morning I started it up, it turned right over, then immediately died. I tried to start again and it cranked but wouldn't turn over. Tried again, same. I pulled the key, got out, walked around it looking for leaks & etc but it looked fine.


Cranked it again and it still wouldn't turn over but did rumble a little. I took that as an encouraging sign and cranked and pumped the gas. It started, but white smoke started pouring out of the tailpipe. A huge cloud of it at first, then a steady stream but not "billowing". It smelled like gas, not sweet. It ran weak for a few seconds then settled into a steady idle. I let it idle for about 5 minutes and the smoke kept up. Still white, and smelled like a garbage fire. Almost like paper burning. But not sweet. And there was a LOT of condensate on the driveway directly under the end of the tailpipe. I smelled that, too. It smelled kind of like gas/oil but not really sweet. That froze and has since evaporated. The white smoke had me spooked so I shut it down and did not take note of whether or not it was running hot. (that is a huge failure on my part, but what can I say - I was freaking out)

Trying to diagnose car trouble on the internet is just like going to WebMD, so yeah, it could be a cracked block or blown head gasket. I don't think either of those things happen without some kind of run-up, though, do they? I haven't had ANY issues with the Jeep. No overheating, no hesitation, it hadn't been running rough, etc. It went from running great on Saturday to sitting in my driveway while I freak out and try to assess my options.


Moving on...


Last night after work I went out there with the shop light and a flashlight and took a good long look under the hood. The radiator is full up to the top, and no milky film or mayonnaise-like goop. The reservoir is full. It's maybe 3/4 inch below the FULL line, but WAY above the ADD line. In other words, it doesn't look like it's been leaking. The engine oil looks fine (no froth, no milky film, no sweet smell, it smells normal). It's maybe a little low but nothing panic-inducing. I looked all around the top of the motor with the flashlight but didn't see any indication of anything leaking. I crawled around underneath it with the flashlight and didn't see anything leaking. I took a good, long look at the driveway under it and didn't see any evidence of any leaks.

I've never dealt with a blown head gasket, or anything like this, so I'm at a loss. I know I can't drive it if the head gasket is leaking, so I'll get it towed to the shop if I need to, but I'd like to do a little more troubleshooting and could use a little advice.

I'd like to put some fresh gas in it with a little drygas, and see if it helps, but I'm afraid to even try to start it - I don't want to make a bad problem worse because I want to troubleshoot. Then again, I don't want to pay to get it towed to the shop only to find out it just needed fresh gas and a little drygas.


Any advice?
 
If it’s running so rough and burning so much oil, that you don’t even want it running, I’d just play it safe and have it towed. You’ve got such a new vehicle, with so many miles left in it, why risk it?

Of course, I also know it’s easy to spend other people’s money too, so I get your hesitation. But you’re right, diagnosis via the net is tough.
 
Discussion starter · #4 ·
If it’s running so rough and burning so much oil, that you don’t even want it running, I’d just play it safe and have it towed. You’ve got such a new vehicle, with so many miles left in it, why risk it?

Of course, I also know it’s easy to spend other people’s money too, so I get your hesitation. But you’re right, diagnosis via the net is tough.
Yeah. It's possible I just have condensation in the fuel line and fresh gas + drygas will flush it out.

I'm really trying to get a sense of how risky it is just starting/idling. I mean, the mechanic's going to have to do that anyhow, right?
 
You might have flooded it. Condensation from the exhaust this time of the year is normal. However w/o seeing it it's hard to tell. You could pressure test the cooling system to rule out a bad head gasket, that's what I would do if the white smoke concerned me enough. I would also put a code reader on it and make sure there are no cylinder misfire codes.

If all checks out well drive it and see if you have trouble starting it again, and then do some more in depth troubleshooting.
 
Sounds like water in the gas to me
 
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Discussion starter · #8 ·
This may be a dumb question, but I'm an IT not an auto mechanic, so here goes...

What's the main concern with running the car? Overheating? Or is it the possibly drawing more contaminants (like antifreeze) through the system?


I'm not thinking about taking it out and driving it hard, I'm just thinking about putting fresh gas & drygas in it, and starting it up and letting it idle for a bit just to see what happens.
 
This may be a dumb question, but I'm an IT not an auto mechanic, so here goes...

What's the main concern with running the car? Overheating? Or is it the possibly drawing more contaminants (like antifreeze) through the system?


I'm not thinking about taking it out and driving it hard, I'm just thinking about putting fresh gas & drygas in it, and starting it up and letting it idle for a bit just to see what happens.
From your description I'd say the biggest threat is that it will stop running and block traffic.
Can you walk to a station and come back with a couple gallons of gas? Or get a ride from a buddy? And I wouldn't use the gas station you used last time...
 
This may be a dumb question, but I'm an IT not an auto mechanic, so here goes...

What's the main concern with running the car? Overheating? Or is it the possibly drawing more contaminants (like antifreeze) through the system?


I'm not thinking about taking it out and driving it hard, I'm just thinking about putting fresh gas & drygas in it, and starting it up and letting it idle for a bit just to see what happens.

Just like it's hard to diagnose over the internet, it's even harder telling you if it's a concern or not to keep running the engine. The worse you could do is seize up the engine. ;)


It sounds to me like you either have bad gas, or a bad head gasket like you are speculating. It's white smoke....so we know it's some type of water getting into the cylinders. I would go with dumping in the dry gas. Since it's not a sweet smell like you mentioned, then it seems to point more in direction of bad gas instead of the head gasket cylinder. It also seems to have started after your recent fill up also right?
 
.... It also seems to have started after your recent fill up also right?
Problem manifested after infrequent driving and tank left with low fuel level. High moisture environment, low temps.
 
I don't think you have any issues. Put some fresh gas in it, maybe some seafoam or other gas treatment, let it warm up(watch your temp guage) and go drive it.

I've got two vehicles and sometimes I don't drive one of them frequently enough.

I got my JKUR and a Corolla. Last time I started the Corolla after sitting, it was rough. Had to crank on it for a few, then it ran like crap for a couple minutes before running smooth.

I'm in MI and I would expect exactly what you had happen if I let my Jeep sit. In fact, I have let it sit and it did the same thing.

When a vehicle is cold you're gonna get more water coming out of the tail pipe at first until it warms up more, especially in the cold.

If you didn't find any water/coolant in your oil, I'm betting it's fine.
 
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This may be a dumb question, but I'm an IT not an auto mechanic, so here goes...

What's the main concern with running the car? Overheating? Or is it the possibly drawing more contaminants (like antifreeze) through the system?


I'm not thinking about taking it out and driving it hard, I'm just thinking about putting fresh gas & drygas in it, and starting it up and letting it idle for a bit just to see what happens.
Your risk is the fact you don't know what's actually causing the smoke. In most cases excessive white smoke is water contamination. If it's a blown head gasket or damaged cylinder head, your main concerns are water reducing the lubricating properties of oil and it's ability to protect the rotating assemblies and thus ruining rings, cylinder walls, and bearings. Any coolant in the combustion stroke will also alter your air fuel ratio's which can damage sensors.
I'd get it to a shop to get a compression check/ leak down test to rule this out before you attempt to drive it under load.
 
Your risk is the fact you don't know what's actually causing the smoke. In most cases excessive white smoke is water contamination. If it's a blown head gasket or damaged cylinder head, your main concerns are water reducing the lubricating properties of oil and it's ability to protect the rotating assemblies and thus ruining rings, cylinder walls, and bearings. Any coolant in the combustion stroke will also alter your air fuel ratio's which can damage sensors.
I'd get it to a shop to get a compression check/ leak down test to rule this out before you attempt to drive it under load.
Yeah; you are totally on spot ---- if he drove it often and it did that.
When Occam's Razor applies, it's usually Occam's Razor...

Ultimately life is a crap shoot.
 
You will have white smoke on every start up.in the cold, regardless of vehicle, so long as it is a gas engine.

I had a Toyota truck a long time ago that had a head gasket leak. It blew thick, white smoke. Far different than cold start up white smoke. It was opaque it was so thick, blew it like that in the middle of summer.

I drove it for a couple months as it got worse. Was about to drive it an hour to check out a vehicle for sale. Thought I would check the oil before I went. The oil had the consistency and look of grey pudding. I thought that was quite a testament to Toyota that it would run like that.

Gas breaks down fast. My brother has a friend who works MDOT, they put gas treatment in every tank because their vehicles do sit not running for periods of time.
 
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You could have oil running into the intake manifold. I'd check for oil there and the PCV
 
bad gas?, replace a head gasket?, or rebuild the entire engine?

His issue isn't a "crap shoot" at all provided he proceeds with caution. :thumb:
Right. Dump 5 gallons of fresh (100% gas) fuel in, start her up. See if the problem is still there.
 
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