Why is Jeep ignoring the problem of the Jeep wobble??? Are they waiting for someone to die before they address it?
Jeep wobble
Jeff Papa
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Why do you have E rated tires? They are going to be stiffer than needed which will also add to instability. C load rated tires are what I’ve seen recommended.
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The c-rated tires would have been my first choice, unfortunately the e-rated came with the truck when I bought it used. I believe the dealer added the lift and the tires as a show piece; putting it out in front of the dealership and the like. I have considered selling them and buying the c's, but have not pulled the trigger yet.
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Just for the record, Jeep fixed my wobble. I drive a 2020 JT stock, no lifts, no oversized tires. A bad steering dampener was replaced and BINGO, fixed. Just wanted to go on record as saying Jeep did not ignore the problem as far a I know. 😊
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Can anyone comment on death wobble that only happens in 55 degree weather or colder? Where I live it rarely gets that cold but sure enough at 55 degrees it shakes so bad I have to stop where I am. I don't understand why ambient air temps would make a difference.
Layne
2012 Jeep JK Sport 2.5" lift and 35s
2017 Jeep JK Rubicon 2.5" lift and 35s
Layne
2012 Jeep JK Sport 2.5" lift and 35s
2017 Jeep JK Rubicon 2.5" lift and 35s
When your best friend sitting shotgun screams like a little bitch... death wobble.
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1,014 Posts
Not all Jeeps have death wobble, SOME do, and it is usually caused by the wheels and tires not being balanced and running true. Think about all that imbalanced rotating mass starting vibrations that create competing frequencies within the suspension and steering components. Something has to start shaking to dissipate the energy.
The fact that it was corrected for you at 5,000 miles, then returned 16,000 miles later would send me right to the wheels & tires. Don't do a single component repair before you have the wheels checked for trueness (running round and no bends from potholes or curb hits) and the tires checked for roundness as well. If they pass that test then have them balanced. If a tire is taking lots of weight either it is damaged (scuffs, flat spots, tread separation) or the operator of the balance equipment doesn't know what they are doing. The best balance is via the Hunter Road Force method, which spins the tire under simulated driving conditions and can apply weights in a manner that overcomes small imperfections in the assembly.
If you do all that and it is still shaking, only then do you then look for loose wheel bearings, worn ball joints, tie rod ends, sloppy steering box, etc. At your low mileage I'll be surprised if you have to go beyond the wheels & tires.
All trucks with solid front axles will have this issue to one degree or another, Ford Super Duty & Ram 2500/3500 trucks, etc. all can have the condition. The Wrangler is a much lighter weight vehicle with less robust front end components and thus more susceptible to it.
For the last 21 years I've run 35" - 37" tires on my lifted Jeeps for tens of thousands of miles and only once have I had a death wobble issue, which was caused by wheel & tire that were improperly seated on a hub during rotation.
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Hey Jeff, nice tux. I used to duck hunt with a jacket like that.
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What exactly did they fix or replace at 5,000 miles? Any details to share.
This is the first I've heard of the death wobble. I drive my 2015 JKU Rubicon at all speeds, including on the freeway around 90 mph to pass a slowpoke in the HOV lane
! I have subjected my vehicle to all road surfaces from highway to off-road forest road and hiking trails for my research; and yet when I'm on pavement at speed I've never felt anything but rock steadiness, both regarding steering (yaw) as well as jounce/rebound (pitch and roll). So is my vehicle the exception? Note, however, that my vehicle has a stock (Rubicon) suspension (never had it lifted) and OEM wheels (though with larger sized and heavier, load-range E, tires) without wheel spacers to change the rotating axis of each hub -- all things that otherwise might ??? affect steering.Here is my issue. I had death wobble and jeep replaced two steering stabilizers. It helped but not completely, I ended up buying a King 2018 Jeep Wrangler JL Front 2.0 Steering Stabilizer it helped. Then the Jeep started to drift in the lane. Jeep replaced the steering box, torsion bars. They know that the new JL jeeps have an aluminum steering box, it heats up and expands and that causes the drift. I live in California hot as hell in summer, so issue was obvious. But if no one complains then they do nothing. I have had the following issue with my 2018 Jeep JL Sahara Unlimited. Two steering stabilizers replaced, two piece of shit motorcycle batteries replaced (the battery under the fuse box that controls the start stop and everything else, when this battery dies so does your Jeep, it is time for a tow to the dealership), Steering box and front torsion bars (due to the lane drift). Don't get me wrong I still love my Jeep. I put a new stabilizer on, Suspension Lift Kit and New LT295/70-18/10 Open Range Tires used stock wheels no rubbing, looks great and no wobble or drift. Thats my two cents.
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First - replacing the steering stabilizer does NOT fix Death Wobble, it just masks it until the SS finally wears out. Putting a heavier one or even two just masks it a little longer. A properly set up Jeep does not need a SS, the only downside is that you feel all the little variations in the pavement.
Second - no Jeep CJ or Wrangler has ever used torsion bars. Torsion bars are used in some vehicle for the springing. They are a replacement for either leaf springs (used on CJs and YJs) or coil springs (used on TJs, JKs, JLs and JTs). If they said they replaced the torsion bars, the mechanic did not know what they were talking about.
There are front and rear sway bars with sway bar links, but they have absolutely nothing to do with the issues of wobble or death wobble. There are upper and lower control arms on either side of the axle, but again nothing to do with wobble or death wobble. DW is a side to side harmonic, the contol arms simple filx the fore and aft position of the axle, and use bushing to allow the axle to move up and down.
Second - no Jeep CJ or Wrangler has ever used torsion bars. Torsion bars are used in some vehicle for the springing. They are a replacement for either leaf springs (used on CJs and YJs) or coil springs (used on TJs, JKs, JLs and JTs). If they said they replaced the torsion bars, the mechanic did not know what they were talking about.
There are front and rear sway bars with sway bar links, but they have absolutely nothing to do with the issues of wobble or death wobble. There are upper and lower control arms on either side of the axle, but again nothing to do with wobble or death wobble. DW is a side to side harmonic, the contol arms simple filx the fore and aft position of the axle, and use bushing to allow the axle to move up and down.
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Once again - Death Wobble is rarely if ever associated with any issue involving tires or wheels. Issues with tires and wheels causing a vibration is called Wobble or many times shimmy which is actually a better term. If it is constant and increases with speed it is most likely a tire out of round. Tire people generally refer to this as run out. It can easily be checked for on the balance machine using a small pointer and rotating the tire. It is a manufacturing defect in the tire.
Another cause of this is an out of balance tire that will make it's presence known in a certain speed range, many time 55 to 65. Not felt on city streets at slower speeds. If you feel a vibration at a speed and it is fairly constant as you accelerate a bit and then goes away at a certain speed, it again is Wobble or shimmy. It is consistent and repeatable in that every time you are in that speed range you feel it, but do not feel it at slower or higher speeds than that range.
Death Wobble must be induced by an external force. It is a harmonic that is induced within the suspension and/or steering system by an external force, but caused by issues within the suspension/driving systems. While the issue most often shows up in the area of the track bar, it can be the ball joint, the tie rod ends, the steering box, the sector shaft (the shaft coming down out of the steering box) or any other joint in the steering system.
The link in Post #6 is three basic parts, the text explaining the Jeep TJ/JK/JL/JT system, the video part 1 showing the various parts and explaining what they do and how they connect and then the video part 2 showing how to determine the actual cause.
Jeff Papa wants to know why he should bother with knowing about this when it is a warranty issue. Because it may or may not be a warranty system, and too many times in the press of get the vehicle fixed and out of here, they swap out some parts and send you down the road. So they throw on a new steering stabilizer stating the old one was defective. Well it was defective because it was worn out masking the issue and six months from now when this one wears out, you will be right back where you started. You should NEVER take a vehicle into a garage for any issue without having some idea of what the cause could be and what the cause can not be. DW is insidious in that it is not readily a repeatable event (unless you understand it) and it happens in a place that you have drive over hundreds of times previously without issue.
I mentioned early on that DW is induced by an outside force, but only occurs if there is an issue with the steering system. The outside force is some imperfection in the road surface. If the road you are on is perfectly smooth, then the odds of DW even with a sloppy steering system are virtually nil. However, all it takes is that one bump you hit at just the right angle and the right speed and you are off on the bucking horse. Also do not think that DW is unique to Jeep, far from it. Any, repeat any vehicle with a solid front axle and coil springs in the front is subject to it. There are videos on YouTube about solving DW on Ram and Fort HD Pickups for the same reason there are videos of it on Jeep Wranglers.
Somewhere on these forums was a quote from a mechanic who knew what he was doing. When someone came in complaining of DW, he would grab his 4 ft 1" diameter piece of broom stick and go out to their vehicle with them. He would drive, find a good spot, stop get out, put the stick in the road, He would turn around and come back running over the stick (the external force providing the inducement) and if the conditions in the vehicle were right - instant DW. If the vehicle did not suffer DW, then the customer was describing a simple shimmy situation.
Another cause of this is an out of balance tire that will make it's presence known in a certain speed range, many time 55 to 65. Not felt on city streets at slower speeds. If you feel a vibration at a speed and it is fairly constant as you accelerate a bit and then goes away at a certain speed, it again is Wobble or shimmy. It is consistent and repeatable in that every time you are in that speed range you feel it, but do not feel it at slower or higher speeds than that range.
Death Wobble must be induced by an external force. It is a harmonic that is induced within the suspension and/or steering system by an external force, but caused by issues within the suspension/driving systems. While the issue most often shows up in the area of the track bar, it can be the ball joint, the tie rod ends, the steering box, the sector shaft (the shaft coming down out of the steering box) or any other joint in the steering system.
The link in Post #6 is three basic parts, the text explaining the Jeep TJ/JK/JL/JT system, the video part 1 showing the various parts and explaining what they do and how they connect and then the video part 2 showing how to determine the actual cause.
Jeff Papa wants to know why he should bother with knowing about this when it is a warranty issue. Because it may or may not be a warranty system, and too many times in the press of get the vehicle fixed and out of here, they swap out some parts and send you down the road. So they throw on a new steering stabilizer stating the old one was defective. Well it was defective because it was worn out masking the issue and six months from now when this one wears out, you will be right back where you started. You should NEVER take a vehicle into a garage for any issue without having some idea of what the cause could be and what the cause can not be. DW is insidious in that it is not readily a repeatable event (unless you understand it) and it happens in a place that you have drive over hundreds of times previously without issue.
I mentioned early on that DW is induced by an outside force, but only occurs if there is an issue with the steering system. The outside force is some imperfection in the road surface. If the road you are on is perfectly smooth, then the odds of DW even with a sloppy steering system are virtually nil. However, all it takes is that one bump you hit at just the right angle and the right speed and you are off on the bucking horse. Also do not think that DW is unique to Jeep, far from it. Any, repeat any vehicle with a solid front axle and coil springs in the front is subject to it. There are videos on YouTube about solving DW on Ram and Fort HD Pickups for the same reason there are videos of it on Jeep Wranglers.
Somewhere on these forums was a quote from a mechanic who knew what he was doing. When someone came in complaining of DW, he would grab his 4 ft 1" diameter piece of broom stick and go out to their vehicle with them. He would drive, find a good spot, stop get out, put the stick in the road, He would turn around and come back running over the stick (the external force providing the inducement) and if the conditions in the vehicle were right - instant DW. If the vehicle did not suffer DW, then the customer was describing a simple shimmy situation.
04 lj with GRTOPS half cab conversion 05 rocky mountain 06 rubicon with banks sidewinder turbo
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what he said is oh so trueTake it to a good local tire shop and have it aligned. If you have a shop that you have used before, that is where I would go. I have a shop in S. Georgia that I have gone to for 30 years. They know me and I know them. They have a large heavy truck customer base as well as the local Sheriff's Dept. that they do tire and suspension work for.
What you are after is the caster number. They will offer to install cam bolts to adjust the caster. Tell them you will think about it and get the printout of the before and after results. Scan it, and post it here (don't take a photo as many times they are unreadable). You may have to spring for adjustable lower control arms.
The correct caster is critical in the handling of a vehicle. Raising a vehicle upsets the correct settings, especially the caster. Caster is the tilt of the axle and affects how a vehicle turns and tracks on the road. If your steering does not want to come back to center on it's own after a turn - it's most likely because the caster is out of tolerance. Jeeps come from the factory with fixed length control arms and normally do a good job - until you lift it. A small lift won't change it enough to really cause issues, but your lift is tall enough that it might.
Looks like Steed Gun and I have the same idea - he just beat me by a bit.
Here is a link to some:
2018-2025 Wrangler JL Control Arms | Quadratec - Free Shipping
www.quadratec.com
04 lj with GRTOPS half cab conversion 05 rocky mountain 06 rubicon with banks sidewinder turbo
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research death wobble there are a whole of things that can cause it. there are volumes written about it
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4 Posts
Same! Completely stock 2006 Jeep Wrangler with Death Wobble that would shake your dentures out!! (If I wore dentures ;-)
I would fix that. I have seen death wobble on my sister in-laws JK. If ours did it I would fix it fast. She fixed hers after one time. It ain't no joke, and should not be accepted as "that is the nature of the beast". That said, there is something wrong causing it. Even if the Jeep is 100% stock, there is something wrong to cause that.
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I bought a JL that had a wobble from the time I bought it, getting worse until at 7000 miles they put a new damper on, which helped. The problem came back and got progressively worse. Returns to the dealer always resulted in "no problem found". Finally the steering locked up when trying to turn left. The dealer replaced the steering box and the problem has gone away. Unfortunately it took nearly two years and the steering locking up to get it fixed. I DID NOT alter the vehicle in any way because of the wobble. There seems to be several potential causes for the wobble, and if you have two or more issues everything can be within spec and you still have a wobble. They call it a "build up of tolerances", meaning if you have part A at maximum tolerance mated with part B at minimum tolerance you have a problem even though both are in spec. Let the criticism run off your back and try to sift the chaff to find a solution. I kick myself for ever trading my JK in on the JL. The JK was the best vehicle I've ever bought, and the JL is the worst. Good luck.
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This is very good info but I will add that an out of round or out of balance tire can be the external force that causes the front steering/suspension to go into true death wobble due to worn or loose components. It doesn't have to be a bump or pot hole in the road. But if the tire is truly the external force triggering death wobble then it will happen every time at the same speed until the tire is balanced or rotated to rear location. I had this happen to me on the beginning of a road trip. Front tire was missing a wheel weight. The tie rod ends were loose but adjustable and I was able to reset to proper preload.
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My son's '18 Rubicon needed an oil change and new batteries (main battery and stop/start battery - who knew) and an overall checkup as we bought it this Summer with 56K miles. (Yes, we paid way too much...) I brought it to Quirk Jeep in Quincy, MA and they told me there was a service bulletin or recall for the steering damper, which they replaced in a jiffy. We never had an issue with wobble, they just did it as it was a pending recall. I'll dig around for my receipt for the service and get back what was done and how it was classified.
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