[Chuck Zuni]

The clutch recall I got last week said 'no fix determined yet' so I guess we have to live with it 4 now. Just try not to do any excess clutch slippage so the fly wheel/friction plate doesn't over heat. My JLR is my daily driver and I've had it since mid October. I didn't start buying extras until it had 4000 mi with no problems. Still no problems at 5K just the clutch recall and gonna mount the bumper, winch and lighting soon.

 

[HardCase]

I’m in a weird and aggravating limbo situation. I ordered a 2 door Rubicon MT last September and it arrived at the dealership, after a six month wait, on March 13. I’ve paid for the vehicle in full. All I have left to do is hop in and drive it home. But….

They can’t deliver it until the fix is finished. And nobody seems to know when that will be.

Since it is billed as a “safety recall” one would think that they should get it resolved sooner rather than later. I’m understanding that there are 70,000 MT JL and JTs out there and we wouldn’t want all of that danger buzzing around.

 

[Doc222]

The safety issue i think is somewhat dependent on DRIVER. If a clutch starts slipping and driver does nothing but drive it until it gets so hot it catches fire. The issue is the driver more then the clutch.
Its like the threads here when people say I have this knocking sound that get worse with speed. At what point do they stop driving it when it goes BOOM.?

Hard case. Depending on state you might get lemon law before even getting to drive it. You might be dodging a bullet here. What ever jeep does to fix it. Will be the least costly they can do. If it takes dealers right now months to get a jeep in it seems. They are So busy. Where they going to stack these jeeps in line for parts they do not have. Sure they could source after market but that would not be a OEM part.


I still say you can not fix stupid. No matter how much torque a clutch can take.

 

[Chuck Zuni]

I’m in a weird and aggravating limbo situation. I ordered a 2 door Rubicon MT last September and it arrived at the dealership, after a six month wait, on March 13. I’ve paid for the vehicle in full. All I have left to do is hop in and drive it home. But….

They can’t deliver it until the fix is finished. And nobody seems to know when that will be.

Since it is billed as a “safety recall” one would think that they should get it resolved sooner rather than later. I’m understanding that there are 70,000 MT JL and JTs out there and we wouldn’t want all of that danger buzzing around.

That sucks the big one!!! I ordered my Rubicon in Apr and received it in October b4 the recall thank God. I'm being gentle with it. Like no downshifting, brakes only, and first gear take offs. My off road trails in the area don't have much rock crawling it's mostly mud, roots and ruts so I don't need to slip the clutch much at all. It's shift and go.

 

[Chuck Zuni]

The safety issue i think is somewhat dependent on DRIVER. If a clutch starts slipping and driver does nothing but drive it until it gets so hot it catches fire. The issue is the driver more then the clutch.
Its like the threads here when people say I have this knocking sound that get worse with speed. At what point do they stop driving it when it goes BOOM.?

Hard case. Depending on state you might get lemon law before even getting to drive it. You might be dodging a bullet here. What ever jeep does to fix it. Will be the least costly they can do. If it takes dealers right now months to get a jeep in it seems. They are So busy. Where they going to stack these jeeps in line for parts they do not have. Sure they could source after market but that would not be a OEM part.


I still say you can not fix stupid. No matter how much torque a clutch can take.

From what I understand it's happening more out west rock crawling where a lot of clutch slipping is needed some times. Once it's engaged there shouldn't be a problem with over heating. But watch it because too much slippage causes the fly wheel/friction plate to over heat, fracture and explode. Don't want that at 4000rpm! The one engine fire I read abt was a piece went into the engine and started it on fire. For the a friction plate to heat enough to crack it would have reach at least an orange color hot say 800 degrees. Don't know how much the centrifugal force matters though.

 

[HardCase]

I’ve read that 30-40 friction plates have fractured and only one actually caused a fire. Out of 70,000 over six model years. If those figures are accurate, I’m not convinced it is a huge problem. But what do I know? Was the plate made from low grade material? I mean, they’ve been making manual transmissions for over a century and ought to know how it is done by now. They pay them money to do that stuff.

 

[jpcannon]

The only time I had an issue with the clutch is when off road on a steep incline and I tried to leave it in 4 high. With the stock gearing at 3.45, the Jeep wouldn't make the hill. Stupidly, I tried to slip the clutch to keep the revs up and started to smell the plates burning. I shifted into 4 low and finished the trail without incident. That was about 5 k ago, and I still drive the Jeep on road as normal with no problems with the clutch. If you're continually slipping the clutch off road rock crawling, then there could be a problem and I would seriously consider the ACT or CF options. I really don't think you have to baby it when on road as some here are doing unless you detect any slippage when under load. I'll just continue driving mine as normal until the recall comes. If it's just a software fix, I'll say "no thanks".

 

[mudpup]

JK owners have their own clutch issues.
I am kinda of looking forward to replacing mine with a heavier flywheel.

Visual
ESS requirements with fuel consumption at stop / start probably prohibited a robust heavier flywheel as spin less weight at restart was the focus.
Good riddance soon for me.

 

[Chugiakguy]

Visual
ESS requirements with fuel consumption at stop / start probably prohibited a robust heavier flywheel as spin less weight at restart was the focus.
Good riddance soon for me.

View attachment 4575835

Again with that mother f@$#ing ESS system!

In how many ways does that needless, pointless, counterproductive Rube Goldberg ESS system mess up the JLs?

 

[Rob50lx]

I don't have a JL but I do have a gutless 3.8 JK with manual transmission and 125k on stock clutch. Many people in this thread associate rock crawling and serious wheeling with slipping the clutch. That is very wrong! The clutch shouldn't be slipped anymore than regular street driving. Heck even at slow speeds in an automatic both versions of transmissions should be in 4 low when average speed is under 25mph. Why slip clutch or overheat torque converter when you have all that extra gearing? Why put any unnecessary heat into either system?
I regularly start and stop my jeep in 1st gear without using the clutch or going into neutral. I'm also still on stock starter but that will be easier to change than the clutch.

 

[Chuck Zuni]

I’ve read that 30-40 friction plates have fractured and only one actually caused a fire. Out of 70,000 over six model years. If those figures are accurate, I’m not convinced it is a huge problem. But what do I know? Was the plate made from low grade material? I mean, they’ve been making manual transmissions for over a century and ought to know how it is done by now. They pay them money to do that stuff.

My guess is mudpup is right. A thin light fly wheel gives better mpg's and also raises the rpm's when the torque curve kicks in also lessens the peak while lowering the start pt and raising the peak power curve. It definitely should be thicker/heavier in my book.
As for the metal it probably is made of mild steel to save cost. I'm a shop foreman in a heat treating plant and the only reason that would fracture would be be because it wasn't stress relieved after machining and even without that it would be rare. Otherwise it would just deform if hot enough and that would take at least 1200 degrees or so I would think. We stress relieve at 1000-1200 degrees with no distortion but the parts aren't doing 4000rpm in the temper. But if made of a more specialized metal then they picked the wrong metal or it wasn't heat treated right. For example I've seen a 4140 a low carbon/chrome/moly alloy used in high performance axle shaft crack about 2/3 of the length starting at the center from trying to straighten it with an oxy acetylene torch after heat treating, metal can easily warp at 1600 degrees or more. That tells me it was either quenching in the oil to long or it wasn't tempered fast enough and built up internal stress.

 

[Chuck Zuni]

I don't have a JL but I do have a gutless 3.8 JK with manual transmission and 125k on stock clutch. Many people in this thread associate rock crawling and serious wheeling with slipping the clutch. That is very wrong! The clutch shouldn't be slipped anymore than regular street driving. Heck even at slow speeds in an automatic both versions of transmissions should be in 4 low when average speed is under 25mph. Why slip clutch or overheat torque converter when you have all that extra gearing? Why put any unnecessary heat into either system?
I regularly start and stop my jeep in 1st gear without using the clutch or going into neutral. I'm also still on stock starter but that will be easier to change than the clutch.

First off manual transmissions with a clutch don't have a torque converter. 2nd if u have a JK prior to 2012 u have a 3.8 which has a different fly wheel/clutch friction plate than the 3.6 does and I haven't heard about problems with them. My trade in was an 09 JK. 3rd yes rock crawling can take a lot more slippage than mudding or climbing around trails. It takes more getting out and spotting. And on a steep tight trail that means slipping to take off again. Unless u just dump the clutch all the time. See how well that works on a 40 degree slope and let me know how much damage you do to ur roof. 4th how do you not use the clutch at a stop? Shut the engine off or pull it out of gear while releasing the throttle? And then how do you get it rolling again? Are u sure u have a 6 speed manual or an automatic with manual shift option? Do u have 3 peddles, clutch brake throttle? If so not quite the same my friend u don't have an exploding friction plate.

 

[Chuck Zuni]

First off manual transmissions with a clutch don't have a torque converter. 2nd if u have a JK prior to 2012 u have a 3.8 which has a different fly wheel/clutch friction plate than the 3.6 does and I haven't heard about problems with them. My trade in was an 09 JK. 3rd yes rock crawling can take a lot more slippage than mudding or climbing around trails. It takes more getting out and spotting. And on a steep tight trail that means slipping to take off again. Unless u just dump the clutch all the time. See how well that works on a 40 degree slope and let me know how much damage you do to ur roof. 4th how do you not use the clutch at a stop? Shut the engine off or pull it out of gear while releasing the throttle? And then how do you get it rolling again? Are u sure u have a 6 speed manual or an automatic with manual shift option? Do u have 3 peddles, clutch brake throttle? If so not quite the same my friend u don't have an exploding friction plate.

With the automatic. Sorry left that off. LoL

 

[Rob50lx]

First off manual transmissions with a clutch don't have a torque converter. 2nd if u have a JK prior to 2012 u have a 3.8 which has a different fly wheel/clutch friction plate than the 3.6 does and I haven't heard about problems with them. My trade in was an 09 JK. 3rd yes rock crawling can take a lot more slippage than mudding or climbing around trails. It takes more getting out and spotting. And on a steep tight trail that means slipping to take off again. Unless u just dump the clutch all the time. See how well that works on a 40 degree slope and let me know how much damage you do to ur roof. 4th how do you not use the clutch at a stop? Shut the engine off or pull it out of gear while releasing the throttle? And then how do you get it rolling again? Are u sure u have a 6 speed manual or an automatic with manual shift option? Do u have 3 peddles, clutch brake throttle? If so not quite the same my friend u don't have an exploding friction plate.

Reading comprehension is not your strongest skill. I have a manual transmission with 3 pedals like all my Jeeps have had over the 30+ years I've been wheeling. I fully understand that the JL comes with a better manual transmission but totally insufficient and crappy clutch system. That is just one of the many reasons why I will never own a JL. If wheeling any Jeep under an average of 25mph with sufficient load on the drivetrain either style of transmission will benefit from being in 4 lo. There is no reason to lug the engine or add additional stress to an automatic transmission or manual transmission/clutch when you have 4 lo. Torque multiplication is good at reducing load when running at slow speeds where cooling systems are not running at the most efficient range and just not smart. The other Jeep in our fleet is a 98 ZJ V8 Auto with 214k miles on stock tired transmission. Even though it can complete some obstacles in 4 hi, it adds extra heat to the whole engine and trans. That is just a poor decision to try to do obstacles in 4 hi when 4 lo works better and doesn't get as hot. At 16 years old was the only time I have grenaded a clutch due to poor driving skills and beating the crap out of a 5.0 Mustang. All my Jeep related clutches have made over 120k miles without catastrophic failure. I may back down and retry a line or start the Jeep in 1st gear but I won't slip the clutch unnecessarily. I can also hold the brake and quickly engage the clutch or use the HSA but I don't take more than 1 second on the clutch. I regularly do hard trails in Colorado but I have to drive the Jeep home.

Go ahead and slip the clutch all you want, I'll continue doing what has worked for 30+ years for me. I realize I could do harder trails with an automatic. I like the self limitation of preserving the clutch to keep me from trying buggy trails while still keeping up with others and still doing hard rock crawling trails.

 

[Chuck Zuni]

With the automatic. Sorry left that off. LoL

Sorry I've had a few beers and was a little harsh. LoL The internal clutches in the automatics and the torque converter below the locking RPM will control the slippage so if to much would be needed it would just downshift. There's always less engine breaking in an automatic because the torque converter unlocks below 2500-3000 rpm. I just let off and watch everyone else hit the brakes. I went 5 yr and almost 95,000 mi between brakes and rotors on my JK!

 

[Chuck Zuni]

Reading comprehension is not your strongest skill. I have a manual transmission with 3 pedals like all my Jeeps have had over the 30+ years I've been wheeling. I fully understand that the JL comes with a better manual transmission but totally insufficient and crappy clutch system. That is just one of the many reasons why I will never own a JL. If wheeling any Jeep under an average of 25mph with sufficient load on the drivetrain either style of transmission will benefit from being in 4 lo. There is no reason to lug the engine or add additional stress to an automatic transmission or manual transmission/clutch when you have 4 lo. Torque multiplication is good at reducing load when running at slow speeds where cooling systems are not running at the most efficient range and just not smart. The other Jeep in our fleet is a 98 ZJ V8 Auto with 214k miles on stock tired transmission. Even though it can complete some obstacles in 4 hi, it adds extra heat to the whole engine and trans. That is just a poor decision to try to do obstacles in 4 hi when 4 lo works better and doesn't get as hot. At 16 years old was the only time I have grenaded a clutch due to poor driving skills and beating the crap out of a 5.0 Mustang. All my Jeep related clutches have made over 120k miles without catastrophic failure. I may back down and retry a line or start the Jeep in 1st gear but I won't slip the clutch unnecessarily. I can also hold the brake and quickly engage the clutch or use the HSA but I don't take more than 1 second on the clutch. I regularly do hard trails in Colorado but I have to drive the Jeep home.

Go ahead and slip the clutch all you want, I'll continue doing what has worked for 30+ years for me. I realize I could do harder trails with an automatic. I like the self limitation of preserving the clutch to keep me from trying buggy trails while still keeping up with others and still doing hard rock crawling trails.

Yeah I misspoke I should've said if not u have an automatic

 

[Chuck Zuni]

Yeah I misspoke I should've said if not u have an automatic

Yeah I misspoke I should've said if not u have an automatic

Totally agree with all u said except the speed shifting. I try to give all of my standards a sec for the engine RPMs to drop into range for the speed. Less wear and tear to the synchronizers. When it comes to a steep slope I try to stay in one gear but sometimes u do have to slam it I will admit. I've read abt complaints abt not being able to downshift and I think maybe they're going to fast and the synchro is blocking it.

 

[Chuck Zuni]

Yeah I misspoke I should've said if not u have an automatic

And I've used clutches since my 1968 CB125 I bought in 72 when I was 12. Used it on the trails, not a real good idea. LoL Went into army trucks long b4 they had autos. Didn't drive an automatic till I was 21 when I got my 1st state driver's license. Only clutch I've killed was my 73 yz 125. It got oil drenched by a crack in the case.

 

[doug schlosser]

Totally agree with all u said except the speed shifting. I try to give all of my standards a sec for the engine RPMs to drop into range for the speed. Less wear and tear to the synchronizers. When it comes to a steep slope I try to stay in one gear but sometimes u do have to slam it I will admit. I've read abt complaints abt not being able to downshift and I think maybe they're going to fast and the synchro is blocking it.

did you ever try double clutching????

 

[Chuck Zuni]

did you ever try double clutching????

I haven't seen double clutching being needed for more than 20yr and then only with bad/worn synchronizers. Today's synchronizers will resist shifting if the vehicle speed for the gear u want will over rev the engine.