maximum jelly...

 

Hi welcome to the forum. We don't get the diesel here in the states. We consider you the lucky one. How do you plan on wheeling it?

 

Hi people, Hi Gunner (in the British Army the rank of Gunner (abr. Gnr) is the lowest rank in Her Majesty's Royal Artillery) how did you get your nickname? I plan on wheeling it a bit more severely than my wife will wheel it. Plan is for it to become her shopping car...(let me explain we live up in the hills in a most undeveloped part of South Eastern Poland, we have to know how to drive slick clay mud and deep snow with -30C, but in summer the place is a dust bowl....poor soil!) The car that this Wrangler will be replacing is a UAZ 469b that has had a total full metal rebuild with a good Andoria Diesel.....but has little in the way of creature comforts....like nothing except maybe...it has a heater of sorts. I have to admit though I have driven many 4x4s the only jeep I have ever driven was a French Army Hotchkiss M201 back in 1975 and as I guess you say, that is nothing like the experience we will have with a modern Wrangler.

 

The first thing you'll notice (as was said above) we don't have the diesel here in the US. Why I don't know, but for whatever reason that is the case. There are a decent amount of members here that are from Europe and I'm going to guess one of then will chime in eventually. I haven't heard anything bad about it though.

Also, nice to see another person from Poland. My family came to the US in the 60s. We were originally from the Zakopane area. Really pretty up there, been meaning to visit but haven't been able to get the free time.

 

I have the 2.8 diesel.

1. I wasn't a big fan of diesel engines before getting the wrangler.

The 2.8 crd isn't a quite diesel at all. It's knocking/rattling (typical diesel sound). You don't hear it much inside of the jeep, even if you drive open. But the sound suits to the wrangler's rough look.

The engine itself has plenty of torque right from the start but doesn't like higher speeds (>140kph/86mph).

The engine is belt driven not chain driven, so there will be some costs after 100000 km/62000 mls.

The final point, the 2.8 crd doesn't meet the euro 6 emission standard - so it's there is a sales stop for 2016.

 

Wow...another NRV Jeeper! SchuPo, in which city are living? I am in Kettwig. Well, for another week anyhow. Then back to California.

Anyhow... On the whole, a diesel suits the Wrangler well. Having said that, the 2.8 CRD is total crap. It is a truly awful engine. Driving the 3.6 after test driving the 2.8 makes the 3.6 feel like a super car.
The reason most people take the diesel version, in Germany at least is one of basic economics.
The 2.8 gets significantly better fuels millage and diesel fuel is significantly cheaper than gasoline. You would not want to pay to run the 3.6 in Europe. About 115$ to fill up with gasoline at today's exchange rate.
I guess it is also worth pointing that the historically, diesel motors tend to last much longer, though I do not know about the reliability of the 2.8.
Personally, I would take 3L diesel offered in the grand cherokee. It is vastly more refined.
Or something like the 1.8 bi-turbo used in the VW Amarok. Great little motor.

 

Gentlemen, thank you all for your input, I will try to answer all in order...I will be taking full part in the forum if this deal comes to fruition (Taking advice from local people here, cars like this do not change hands rapidly 2 years to sell average!!!! at this price....Poland in general, has come on in leaps and bounds but the people are still relatively poor money wise) So I am going to try to knock the price down a bit, I may find a few minor trim flaws...He has bought the jeep cam belt kit and it comes with the car, plus a full 5 wheel set of alloys with winter tyres (mandatory here) The guy is not an off roader, this car has seen no more than the odd muddy car park! it was a lifestyle choice-he wanted to look like 'the urban cowboy'..... if it didn't snow so much in Poland you could bet the 4wd/hi-low selector would be stiff from lack of use!! The only bad thing is that it has seen motorway use and Poles here are...well lets say road deaths in Poland are almost the highest in Europe!!! so driving is fast and furious usually and as has been said that does not suit this engine. With my wife and I, it will never see a motorway/autostrada/autobahn/freeway, so it,s life will be in the slow lane, albeit the very steep and muddy slow lane!! Maybe the comforts of the Jeep will encourage us to travel further afield than the UAZ 469 did (I,m surprised none of you Americans commented on the UAZ...I bet not many in USA? I will say this...we have been looking specifically at 3 cars....2 used and one brand new....first was a new 'UAZ Hunter' with Steyr common rail diesel, secondly a used but very good condition 'MB G Wagen 300D' and this Jeep, now there is one other Jeep Wrangler in this part of Poland, lives in the next town and is an earlier YJ or TJ with the 4 litre gasoline engine, but with LPG tank to lighten the load on the guys pocketbook?(wallet) I think he owns a bar/restaurant? My wife has always liked it but says it looks a little cramped inside? not much room between driver and passenger? I take it the JK is a little wider and more roomy inside? I do know this engine, but in earlier incarnations.....it was, in non common rail form used in the Range Rover, but it did not suit either the weight or the automatic gearbox versions. It was also used in European Jeep Cherokees...but had a reputation for blowing head gaskets and cracking cylinder heads if used hard on long/fast journeys. So again it will see virtually no hard use with me..(I have the Pinzgauer and Mog for the insane stuff!) It will be interesting to see where it gets stuck, when I have ploughed through with the primitive UAZ in the past. I think I will be losing that air dam at the front....not needed where I am...it will just be an encumbrance. Bobes...I am not far from Zakopane nice pretty area but getting touristy these days. By the way Bobes..Just wild guessing?.....Bober is a common surname round here....it is actually Polish for Beaver I think? I think this Jeep has 16 inch alloys.....I am glad because 16 inch is a size I am used to with Landrovers and the Pinzgauer....unlike most of you, when it comes time to buy new treads I will be looking at a thinner tyre which I have used extensively for the last 10 years or more it is nowhere near as wide as you will all be used to but it is a tall tyre when new. GoodYear G90 in 7.50 x 16R I used these on my last 2 Landrovers and still have a 5 year old set on my Pinz with plenty of tread left...I have no complaints about them whatsoever, on or off road. Wish me luck..Sunday is the day! Jeep or G wagen???

 

I have just bought my second Wrangler Diesel! I had my old JK for 7 years... or 125,000 miles of adventures. It's such a versatile, go anywhere car, that I really can't fault it. It looks so cool still and puts a smile on my face.

The Grand 3 litre diesel IS an amazing engine. My wife has one and it really flies. The wrangler diesel isn't that bad, even better on the new ones that have some extra cogs in the gearbox. I don't think the engine is noisy, the car is noisy at speed because of the barn shape and removable roof.

Here's a photo of the new wrangler, the roofs leaking after a week, you gotta slam those doors shut!

 

And for my US friends who haven't seen a Wrangler Oil Burner, here's what's under the hood....

 

I like the colour of the coolant!

Good to see a UK jeep, i moved to the US just over a year ago and bought a JKU.
Not sure if i could run one in the UK. Feels small and cheap to run over here, I am guessing it wouldnt be the same back 'home'.

 

I plan on wheeling it a bit more severely than my wife will wheel it. Plan is for it to become her shopping car...(let me explain we live up in the hills in a most undeveloped part of South Eastern Poland, we have to know how to drive slick clay mud and deep snow with -30C, but in summer the place is a dust bowl....poor soil!) The car that this Wrangler will be replacing is a UAZ 469b that has had a total full metal rebuild with a good Andoria Diesel.....but has little in the way of creature comforts....like nothing except maybe...it has a heater of sorts. I have to admit though I have driven many 4x4s the only jeep I have ever driven was a French Army Hotchkiss M201 back in 1975 and as I guess you say, that is nothing like the experience we will have with a modern Wrangler.

What model year is your UAZ? I have wheeled with a number of 469's (a few of which were the civilian B model) but have never encountered a diesel version; was this a conversion that you had done?

The creature comfort levels between a 469, Defender, and Wrangler are worlds apart and if that is important then a Wrangler might be a better choice (although a 2008 model still retained some of it's spartan feel inside). On road in winter the Defender may be a better choice. For utility and all-round off road performance the 469 or Defender would usually win out.

I test drove the common rail diesel available in Wranglers in 2010 and again in 2013 when purchasing my Jeeps; both times I opted for the petrol version. I have wheeled with others with their diesel versions and must say that they did have more torque in a limited range than the petrol rigs.

For me it came mostly down to economics: the diesel cost about 5000 US more to purchase, tax was 5-6 times more, fuel costs more per litre (and the difference in mileage did not make up for it), service costs more (belt instead of chain, etc.), repairs cost more, and estimated resale where I live is lower. (of course, these things may vary in your area) Add to that the odour and sound and I went for petrol in my Wranglers.

In my Defenders there was no other choice than a disease-L engine; but even then it was not the CRD like the Wrangler but rather the 2.4 duratorq found in the Ford transit vans (but now is a 2.2 litre); it did not convince me to love diesels but it did have the power and torque needed.

A more modern Wrangler will certainly give you a more car-like experience compared to a Landy or the UAZ and, although I haven't heard of any major issues with the diesel versions (nothing like the '12 ticking issues in the petrol anyway), I have noticed that the majority of those who I know who have owned them replaced them with the petrol version (although that may have been more to get the Pentastar rather than to get rid of the diesel).

In any case, The Wrangler is still a good off road vehicle despite its modernisation - my luddite wife has a shiny new 2015 Niva with all of its spartan charm and off road abilities so different strokes for different folks. If you were to make some inquiries here in Sweden I am reasonably certain that you could get a better price here for the 469 than you may get in Poland - they are quite popular here locally and I see quite a few of them annually on the Sweden Offroad Tour in the summers.

 

Quoting pablo_max - Anyhow... On the whole, a diesel suits the Wrangler well. Having said that, the 2.8 CRD is total crap. It is a truly awful engine.

I might have worded that differently - but true none the less.

Driving the 3.6 after test driving the 2.8 makes the 3.6 feel like a super car.

Yep.

The reason most people take the diesel version, in Germany at least is one of basic economics. The 2.8 gets significantly better fuels millage and diesel fuel is significantly cheaper than gasoline.

'significantly' is subjective and depending where in Europe the opposite is true regarding price.

I guess it is also worth pointing that historically, diesel motors tend to last much longer, though I do not know about the reliability of the 2.8.

'Historically' is the appropriate qualifier for that statement as it no longer holds true.

Please don't take me wrong - a Wrangler can be a good vehicle choice for many people (I'm on my second JKU) and a Diesel version could be a good choice for some as well. It was not my choice and I merely am explaining why that was the case for me. Certainly a diesel Wrangler could be better than no Wrangler.

 

I think a Jeep is a good honest SUV. I had a Range Rover which is seen as a bit showy and a 'gas guzzler' and it broke down every month and cost a fortune. The plucky 'little' jeep looks like it has a happy face, kids love it and it has a noble history since 1941.

I also had a Landrover Defender and you still can't get them with an automatic gearbox and all the trimmings (what few it has) all cost extra.

I'm surprised Jeep don't sell so many more JK's in the UK although Jeep did double their sales here last year so watch this space!

The old JK I had did 125,000 miles, much of it around the Lake District and it was a perfect vehicle, on or off road, through rain and snow and more rain.

 

Gentlemen..Thank you very much for you thoughts and replies.The Jeep that I eventually bought is a low mileage 50,000miles appx 2012 wrangler Sport in dark metallic green. It is so clean underneath?? I know that a Defender of this age would be showing way more chassis rust. It was between a Discovery 4, a Defender SVX with the Puma (I was beaten to the Defender SVX by 1 day and it was a beauty) The Discovery 4 is a nice vehicle but very complex and has a terrible reliabilty record.... but such is life, my wife is very pleased with the JK.....I,m not sure but I don,t think the previous owner had anyone in the back? everything is so damn clean? I am OK with this deisel engine, it is an engine I am familiar with, VM do make good diesels, but they have to be looked after and not abused......Unlike the Andoria 4C90 in my old UAZ which was made to be abused by post communist psycho drivers. The Andoria conversion is a popular one in Poland. I for got to say....this is going to be a rare drive in this part of Poland......there is one TJ in the next town, never seen another Wrangler of any kind, in the 5 years we have been in this part of Poland. First thing I will throw away is the hated EGR!!! every engine I have owned which has had one fitted, I have blanked it off and immediately gotten better response smoother running and better economy...(But this is the first common rail diesel that I have owned).

 

Congratulations on getting the Wrangler! and especially in that colour; the Wrangler has always looked good in green. I was looking at the SVX the year they were out and there was only one that came to Sweden and somebody got it before me. I met him this year on the Sweden Off Road Tour and that thing still looks great in black with the soft top and all of the 'titanium' bits!. I had a Disco2 years ago which was a great vehicle in almost every way - but ugly on the outside and expensive to maintain. And, yes, the Defenders do attract a bit of rust if not maintained - my first one had rust on the rear beam after just 6 months, but I cleaned it and applied Hammerite which solved the issue and that became an immediate 'mod' on the others when new. I still use Waxoyl and Dinotrol on my Wranglers. Wranglers are not common here either so I am sure that you will turn some heads in yours in Poland.

BTW, what was the price and model year of the Hunter you had looked at?

 

I looked at a 'new' Hunter from either Tarmot.pl or a sales group called AMC Czech in what was the Czech Republic. AMC gave me a straight price for a standard Hunter Euro 14,000 Tarmot were more 'cagey' and talked about options are all extra?? worked out about 15,000 Euros (but I could have a choice of Diesels, they would throw away the Benzine motor and put in an Andoria 4CT 90 turbo diesel) I spoke to a guy on a Russian trucks forum and he told be that was a big profit.....he said "go anywhere in Ukraine or Russia and you will get a new one from the show room for 10,000 Euros....but we agreed that getting it out of Russia might entail customs 'Taxes'... Border guard 'Taxes' etc etc. Tarmot do have an English speaker if you need one and will ship an UAZ/build a UAZ to spec and ship it anywhere.....(I was almost tempted by a new UAZ 452 4x4 minibus with the Andoria Turbo.....I might even specify the front disc brakes...all apparently do-able) sorry I took a while to answer, busy getting new Jeep registered etc....all things take time in Poland.

 

An acquaintance of mine picked up a Hunter in Riga a few years ago, IIRC it was about 13K euros and then about 400-500 for the paperwork on both ends, inspection, and registration - not too bad. But being able to pick one up in Gdansk would be a lot easier for us here if possible.

Good luck with the Wrangler; I'm sure you'll love it! (Plus you can even buy AEV parts in Poland from Wranglery.pl!)

 

Congrats on the purchase! I'm sure you won't be disappointed Still wishing we had a diesel option here lol

 

Wranglery.pl is now bookmarked.....thankyou........I have done some more research on Jeep owners with this CRD engine......there were many howls of anguish!!! Being the past owner of several other electronic diesels from both Renault and VW I have heard the same howls of anguish from people on their forums. There is a secret people..now listen here: when you get this CRD immediately (or as soon as convenient) throw away all that crappy EGR stuff, disconnect and blank off. If you have a particulate filter, bland off the line to it and cut it out...replace with a straight pipe...cut open the muffler/silencer and take out the interior......you will have a slightly louder, but more flexible and more economical diesel.....you still can't push this thing to the lunatic fringe..it is still a diesel, but you will have many hundreds of thousands of miles of trouble free economy and fun. To the Green people...your heart is in the right place, but we don,t need your EGRs and paticulate filters.....just do what I do and plant a lot more trees.

 

2008 2.8 Diesel

These were made by VM Motori and was a popular motor for many european vehicles as well as export Jeep Wranglers to many markets outside the US. The current 2.8 CRD JK Wrangler introduced from 2010/11 still uses the upgraded Euro5 2.8 diesel by VM Motori.
To check how these perform and how reliable they are search in the Aussie jeep forum as there are many posts -

www.ausjeepoffroad.com

I would not call the 2010 and earlier CRD engines super reliable but like all these older diesel engines require regular maintenance and high use to get the most out of them. Hope this helps.

Just some trivia GM partly owned VM Motori and their diesel engines occur in many non US GM products around the world.
:beerme:

 

Every country has their own 'indigenous' diesel engine maker (who were mostly stand alone on their own merits makers) USA had Detroit Diesel and Cummins, UK had Gardner and Perkins, Italy had VM Motori, Germany had MWM diesel, even lowly Poland has Andoria Diesel. All of these have mostly done well and produced some great diesels...with a few bad eggs along the way......The CRD seems to have been a continuously developed product, but I still maintain (having been a diesel engined car and truck driver since the early 70's) that the bad reputation of some diesel engines comes from people trying to push an old and worn example beyond the limits, when new it will take this abuse for a while, when old it will quickly destroy itself. EGRs and such do not help at all and should be disposed of as soon as possible....In UK and Poland these items are not tested at annual mechanical inspection.

 

Ive got the 2.8L diesel version too. Compared to the 3.6L gasoline engine ive tried them both back to back. Powerwise i didnt feel much of a difference. Maybe just down low before turbo kicks in at 2000 rpm. Also noticed the 3.6L gas pedal is kinda heavy compared to the diesel version.

 

I wish I had a diesel Wrangler, hoping for them to come to USA in 2018