That hole where the track bar mounts to the frame looks like it has ovalled out quite a bit from the first track bar coming loose. It's likely that the new track bar may still be able to move a bit unless it remains torqued to spec.

Even at that you may still need to have a thick washer welded to the front and rear of the bracket to create a round hole that won't let that bolt move around under heavier loads.

 

Good point - I forgot to mention the shop did weld a washer on after installing the new track bar, I'm confident the track bar is solidly installed and the bolt is tight. Wondering what the diagnosis is if its not an issue related to the track bar...

 

Are you SURE this is death wobble and not a vibration caused by a still out of balance or out of round tire/wheel?

Death wobble is so violent it will make you crap your pants and usually doesn't go away unless you come to a full stop ... not slowing down as you mentioned.

 

Are you SURE this is death wobble and not a vibration caused by a still out of balance or out of round tire/wheel?

Death wobble is so violent it will make you crap your pants and usually doesn't go away unless you come to a full stop ... not slowing down as you mentioned.

Untrue. Mine has DW (currently in dealer for it) and slowing down from HW speeds does cause it to stop.

 

I am nervous now

 

Hey guys, be good Jeepers. Don't argue!

 

No argument from me. It is what it is. DW has been around for years and the cause, cure, and what is required to stop it have been proven over and over again. Slowing down seldom works for actual death wobble. Plain and simple. Now ... a vibration is another thing altogether.

Best description I have ever heard about Death Wobble:

When true "Death Wobble" happens it makes you think that the steering wheel is going to come off the column, the radio is going to be flung out of the dash, the hood is going to be shaken off the hinges, the windows are going to fall out, at least one tire has fallen off, and makes you utter words and phrases that you didn't realize you knew.

If all of that doesn't apply, then it was a vibration ... not true death wobble.

 

Many times "death wobble" gets misclassified and people assume it is a strong vibration in the steering wheel. These are generally caused by issues different than what classic death wobble is. @StevieTex is generally correct in what death wobble actually is and originally was defined as. Original or "real" death wobble almost always can only be stopped by coming to a complete stop or damn near a full stop. Vibration at only certain speeds that can be cured without stopping is an issue no doubt but it is most likely caused by something different than death wobble as it was originally termed.

 

Many times "death wobble" gets misclassified and people assume it is a strong vibration in the steering wheel. These are generally caused by issues different than what classic death wobble is. @StevieTex is generally correct in what death wobble actually is and originally was defined as. Original or "real" death wobble almost always can only be stopped by coming to a complete stop or damn near a full stop. Vibration at only certain speeds that can be cured without stopping is an issue no doubt but it is most likely caused by something different than death wobble as it was originally termed.

As it is generally termed today, slowing down stops the issue. I quick read around these forums will clarify this.

 

I have a 2021 Wrangler Sport Unlimited, 6 cylinder EcoDiesel (JL). Installed a 2.5" superlift suspension lift kit + JKS track bar + teraflex lower control arms + Synergy 1.75" wheel spacers a few weeks ago. Still running stock wheels and tires. 30k miles. Took it from Phoenix (AZ) to Moab (UT), went offroading in Moab, no issues. On the way back to Phoenix, experienced severe death wobble out of nowhere. Pulled over, discovered track bar had come completely off (see picture below).

Determined the track bar was defective, returned it and replaced it with a Rock Krawler track bar. Shop made sure everything was tight, checked the torque and alignment, good to go. Same day driving locally - no issues. At highway speed - death wobble returned. Not nearly as violent as the DW when the track bar came off, a more mild shaking that only lasted a few seconds and immediately went away after I slowed down.

Took the jeep to Big O Tires few days ago, they said the front 2 tires were 1/2 ounce off, back 2 tires were 1/4 ounce off. According to Big O Tires, only around 2 ounces or more would cause DW. Tried going over 60 mph after Big O Tires balanced the tires - DW again.

Drove it again today, averaging 50 mph/max 60mph, no issues. talked to the shop again today, thinking maybe the initial severe death wobble caused an issue with the steering stabilizer or something that's not necessarily visible.

Anyone have any experience with this particular issue?

View attachment 4562356

If you are getting vibration at certain speeds every time you hit those speed and can either accelerate through it or slow down out if it the most likely cause is tires being out of balance. If that is not the case then everything that moves and is connected under the steering needs to be checked for additional play. It is possible something was damaged or wore out when you had your track bar issue.

 

This is an accurate description of what I'm experiencing now - when the track bar came off at highway speed that was definitely DW. Now, its much less wobbly, more a strong vibration and slight shake side to side that goes away when i slow down. what i know for sure is the tires have been balanced, alignment checked, no visible issues underneath (everything is tight, although im sure additional testing can be done on every individual part). The "experts" (shops) have told me it's down to either ball joints need to be replaced (but I'm wondering why i'm not getting the vibrations at lower speeds if this is the case) or the steering stabilizer.

Trying to figure out best next steps...

 

THIS is death wobble. It is unbelievably violent. If you've never experienced it you have no idea how violent it is. Lots of folks think their Wrangler has experienced death wobble. If you have death wobble, you KNOW it.

 

THIS is death wobble. It is unbelievably violent. If you've never experienced it you have no idea how violent it is. Lots of folks think their Wrangler has experienced death wobble. If you have death wobble, you KNOW it.

Sounds like flamenco dancers doing the castanets! Just add some sangría! ¡Olé!

 

Come on, guys, what is most important here is, does the Jeep identify as death-wobbling or not? If it does, then it might just be trans-death-wobbling, and nobody has any right to judge the Jeep as anything else.

 

What I think the most ridiculous part of the whole ordeal is that people who have no experience with things claim they know what they are talking about because ..... you guessed it ..... They read it on the internet. Or their know-it-all-never-had-it-happen-to-them "mechanic" told them something.

Of course, if it was information gained from one of their buddies after a couple of beers on the patio then that qualifies as gospel.

 

I can categorically say that I have never experienced death wobble, in any vehicle, but after reading about it in these online Jeep forums, and watching videos of it happening, I believe that I have a very good idea of what death wobble is --- and what it is not. And I get the feeling that there are many Jeep owners out there, probably mostly newbies like me, who are immediately jumping to the conclusion that every possible vibration that they feel through the drivetrain, the suspension and/or the steering column is "death wobble".

As somebody else here said a while ago, if your Jeep does not suddenly feel like God has grabbed the front end and is shaking it rapidly side-to-side like a terrier would shake a rat, with the whole vehicle feeling like it is about to fly apart, AND the vibration can be stopped without coming to a complete stop, then what you are experiencing is NOT death wobble. Yeah, it still might be a bad vibration, but it is not death wobble.

 

So... DW is a harmonic vibration. As such, changing the inputs will change the output. Most DW resolve before you are at a complete stop, because you aren't putting enough energy into the system to propagate the wave.

Even ONE episode of 'true' DW can explode your steering stab, wallow holes on your trackball mounts, or even bend drag links and crack steering components.

So if you have a return of DW then you've probably created more issues than what starts it, which is almost always track bar related.

In this case I'm not sure... did the track bar break first or did the DW break it?

In my own experience, I've never seen a DW fix that did not involve a lose or wallowed track bar mount. There is no amount of on-the-lift shaking that can detect that issue when you torque to 110lbs... Only harmonic vibration will reveal it... at high energy (speed) input.

 

I have a 2021 Wrangler Sport Unlimited, 6 cylinder EcoDiesel (JL). Installed a 2.5" superlift suspension lift kit + JKS track bar + teraflex lower control arms + Synergy 1.75" wheel spacers a few weeks ago. Still running stock wheels and tires. 30k miles. Took it from Phoenix (AZ) to Moab (UT), went offroading in Moab, no issues. On the way back to Phoenix, experienced severe death wobble out of nowhere. Pulled over, discovered track bar had come completely off (see picture below).

Determined the track bar was defective, returned it and replaced it with a Rock Krawler track bar. Shop made sure everything was tight, checked the torque and alignment, good to go. Same day driving locally - no issues. At highway speed - death wobble returned. Not nearly as violent as the DW when the track bar came off, a more mild shaking that only lasted a few seconds and immediately went away after I slowed down.

Took the jeep to Big O Tires few days ago, they said the front 2 tires were 1/2 ounce off, back 2 tires were 1/4 ounce off. According to Big O Tires, only around 2 ounces or more would cause DW. Tried going over 60 mph after Big O Tires balanced the tires - DW again.

Drove it again today, averaging 50 mph/max 60mph, no issues. talked to the shop again today, thinking maybe the initial severe death wobble caused an issue with the steering stabilizer or something that's not necessarily visible.

Anyone have any experience with this particular issue?

View attachment 4562356

What brand / model tires?
Falken Wildpeaks AT3W's are notorious for not being able to get correctly balanced.

I experience wheel wobble, I'm making up my own term since all the Death Wobble Nazi's showed up in this thread, when I had mud caked in my tires / wheels.

 

What brand / model tires?
Falken Wildpeaks AT3W's are notorious for not being able to get correctly balanced.

I experience wheel wobble, I'm making up my own term since all the Death Wobble Nazi's showed up in this thread, when I had mud caked in my tires / wheels.
[/QUOTE

What brand / model tires?
Falken Wildpeaks AT3W's are notorious for not being able to get correctly balanced.

I experience wheel wobble, I'm making up my own term since all the Death Wobble Nazi's showed up in this thread, when I had mud caked in my tires / wheels.

Hi the Falken AT3W are running so smooth on the freeway on the misses JL sports. I was surprised. Must have a good set.

 

Dont be harsh with him, he is being provided this information by someone who works as a vehicle mechanic/technician.

With that said, do a search for what does a steering damper do on a jeep. There are multiple articles, such as this one. We take a look at what a Jeep steering stabilizer is and what it does.

Just a cut/paste of a few QA but note the article does not really distinguish the different between actual DW and tire vibrations at specific speeds. With that said, not in your first post but your last post you mentioned at highway speeds when encountering a bump in the road, that is 99% DW. And DW can happen at almost any speed and is usually occurs when tires encounter a bump/pot hole or other obstacle. An out-of-balance wheel vibrating at a specific speed could generate DW without hitting something else if there are also components damaged/worn/loose.

Q- Does every Jeep need a steering stabilizer?

A - In a perfectly set up chassis with tires that were very well balanced, a steering stabilizer technically isn't necessary. If you run your Jeep without a steering stabilizer and find you don't suffer from any unwanted vibration, wobble, or shaking, then there's no need to add one if you don't want to. Really, a steering stabilizer is often a mask that minimizes other problems. If you don't have those problems to begin with, there's no need to mask them.

Q- Will a steering stabilizer cure death wobble?

A-Sometime a steering stabilizer will cure death wobble in some cases, but more often than not death wobble is the result of something more significantly wrong elsewhere, such as in the tire balance, tire wear pattern, ball joints, camber, or suspension pivot points. Sometimes the addition of a steering stabilizer will prevent small steering system vibrations before they can build and compound into a full-blown wobble, but even in these instances when a steering stabilizer actually cures death wobble, it's only temporary until the components that were the original cause of it wear further to a point where a steering stabilizer is no longer effective in eliminating the condition.

 

Dont be harsh with him, he is being provided this information by someone who works as a vehicle mechanic/technician.

With that said, do a search for what does a steering damper do on a jeep. There are multiple articles, such as this one. We take a look at what a Jeep steering stabilizer is and what it does.

Just a cut/paste of a few QA but note the article does not really distinguish the different between actual DW and tire vibrations at specific speeds. With that said, not in your first post but your last post you mentioned at highway speeds when encountering a bump in the road, that is 99% DW. And DW can happen at almost any speed and is usually occurs when tires encounter a bump/pot hole or other obstacle. An out-of-balance wheel vibrating at a specific speed could generate DW without hitting something else if there are also components damaged/worn/loose.

Q- Does every Jeep need a steering stabilizer?

A - In a perfectly set up chassis with tires that were very well balanced, a steering stabilizer technically isn't necessary. If you run your Jeep without a steering stabilizer and find you don't suffer from any unwanted vibration, wobble, or shaking, then there's no need to add one if you don't want to. Really, a steering stabilizer is often a mask that minimizes other problems. If you don't have those problems to begin with, there's no need to mask them.

Q- Will a steering stabilizer cure death wobble?

A-Sometime a steering stabilizer will cure death wobble in some cases, but more often than not death wobble is the result of something more significantly wrong elsewhere, such as in the tire balance, tire wear pattern, ball joints, camber, or suspension pivot points. Sometimes the addition of a steering stabilizer will prevent small steering system vibrations before they can build and compound into a full-blown wobble, but even in these instances when a steering stabilizer actually cures death wobble, it's only temporary until the components that were the original cause of it wear further to a point where a steering stabilizer is no longer effective in eliminating the condition.

Thank you for the link. VERY interesting. So, given they are blaming the stabilizer and the article suggests this is just a temp fix, any advice on what to tell them? My stock Sahara has 40k miles on it. Hate to have to revisit this in another 40k when I doubt very much Jeep will pay for it, not to mention the other components that will be worn as a result.

In other words: How do I tell them to FIX this rather than kick the can down the road?

Thanks.

 

I had to change tires all around to eliminate the Death Wobble. Went from Wrangler 275 70r18 to 265 and the Wobble has not happened again. And the tires are hiway tread, not mud or off road. Before changing tires I replaced ball joints, added a front stabilizer and still had the Death Wobble 💀.

 

It is important to understand that Jeep basically has to use OEM parts to fix DW particularly when it is under warranty. It seems that the factory Jeep parts are marginal on the JL in many situations. Many times an aftermarket part will be stronger and do better job of keeping DW from occurring. This is more important once tire diameter or wheel offset increases. The whole tire wheel package increases the severity of DW as they increase in weight and size.

 

Lets try and do this with some sound steps. You have many parts modified and they need to be addressed 1 at a time. You said this started after an off road adventure. Were you aired down? If so it is possible you damaged a tire internally. Have you tried rotating the tires to see if anything changes? A tire can balance staticlly but still be unbalanced when loaded with vehicle weight. Did they road force balance or static balance? I would start by rotating and see if anything changes. If the vibration goes away time to look deeper ito the tires. A road force balance could uncover a tire thats internal structure has damage. If none of this has any change the 2nd step would be to remove the wheel spacers and test drive again. Things like corrosion on the mounting surface of the rotor and the front bearing assembly can cause a balanced tire to wobble. Cleaning those surfaces will make a flat mounting surface. How about the rotor side of the spacer. Is there any corrosion on it? Do you see where i am going with this? You need to examine piece by piece to find your culprate.

 

Lets try and do this with some sound steps. You have many parts modified and they need to be addressed 1 at a time

That's exactly what a physical therapist is trained to say after a heart transplant.

 

If tire pressure is good. Jack up one side front tire an inch off the ground put a garden shovel under the wheel and push down of the handle while watching the knuckle to see if there is any movement. If there is probably a ball joint issue.

 

In my particular DW case, it was worn out ball joints. 2013 JKUR.

If I could give you one piece of advice, it would be to photograph (well lit) all of the suspension components pre + post upgrade.

 

Do steering components wear out at 30K all highway? Seems like we should add in off road mileage when we talk about our Jeeps.

 

it was the control arms on my 2004 lj - replaced control arms = no wobble

 

I had moderate death wobble on my 2013 jk and it turned out to be my tires. My tires were down to 3/32nds! The moment I put new tires on everything was fixed.

 

I had a death wobble3 yrs. ago. Took my mechanic a few tries to get it to wobble but it finally did. He did a lot of work underneath the front end like changing many parts - very old because I have a 98 jeep wrangler TJ. But whatever he fixed under there worked. I’m sure it was the stabilizer bar, Plus, he changed the shocks and suspension - the death wobble quit.

 

I had death wobble the other day.

Turns out it was the refried beans I had for lunch.

 

I had death wobble the other day.

Turns out it was the refried beans I had for lunch.

I think you're confusing death wobble with backfiring there, Aldo.

 

I have a 2021 Wrangler Sport Unlimited, 6 cylinder EcoDiesel (JL). Installed a 2.5" superlift suspension lift kit + JKS track bar + teraflex lower control arms + Synergy 1.75" wheel spacers a few weeks ago. Still running stock wheels and tires. 30k miles. Took it from Phoenix (AZ) to Moab (UT), went offroading in Moab, no issues. On the way back to Phoenix, experienced severe death wobble out of nowhere. Pulled over, discovered track bar had come completely off (see picture below).

Determined the track bar was defective, returned it and replaced it with a Rock Krawler track bar. Shop made sure everything was tight, checked the torque and alignment, good to go. Same day driving locally - no issues. At highway speed - death wobble returned. Not nearly as violent as the DW when the track bar came off, a more mild shaking that only lasted a few seconds and immediately went away after I slowed down.

Took the jeep to Big O Tires few days ago, they said the front 2 tires were 1/2 ounce off, back 2 tires were 1/4 ounce off. According to Big O Tires, only around 2 ounces or more would cause DW. Tried going over 60 mph after Big O Tires balanced the tires - DW again.

Drove it again today, averaging 50 mph/max 60mph, no issues. talked to the shop again today, thinking maybe the initial severe death wobble caused an issue with the steering stabilizer or something that's not necessarily visible.

Anyone have any experience with this particular issue?

View attachment 4562356

My 2022 just started this at 6500 miles. Took it to the dealership and found nothing loose. But steering damper is week and replacing it. Hopefully this will fix the problem.

 

Problem solved! Or more likely they just kicked the can down the road and out of warranty...

Dealer took it and said the damper was shot and the latest iteration of the damper were back ordered. Gave me a loaner (new Cherokee) and said they would call me when thy had it installed.

5 weeks (and 3200 miles later) they called and said come pick it up. I did.

ON THE WAY HOME, it did it again. Unreal. They did not eve test drive it. The vehicle had less than a mile more on it from when I dropped it off. Yes, I take pictures. The tech was sarcastic and angry in his notes because he had installed the previous version and then teh latest version came out and he had to remove the new one, install the OEM and wait for the newest damper to arrive. He actually stated that he primed the new damper 25 times but did not test drive it.

They told me I needed to wait a couple of weeks for a new loaner to be available. I told the family that the Wrangle was surface streets ONLY until they "fixed" it again.

Nice surprise. One day after dropping it off and expecting to have to drive the loaner (another new Cherokee) they called and said it was done. I went down there ad they explained that on their test drive (nice they thought of this, this time) they noticed it needed an alignment as it was pulling to the right. No, it wasn't. They stated they did an alignment as a curtesy AND installed a new after market FOX damper and the issue was solved. No charge.

So far the issue hasn't come back, but I have to believe that I will be replacing dampers ever 35K fir the life of the vehicle. Steering is stiffer, btw.

That is where we stand.