Never I would ask to see the code

 

According t the link below, you don't need OEM bumpers in PA. They just have to be of "equivalent strength".

All stock vehicles have metal bumpers. You just can't see them because most are fitted with plastic covers. There's no requirement for plastic covers. Look up the 2018 Silverado. They come stock with metal bumpers. (Either pained or chromed).

From this link: https://www.pacode.com/secure/data/067/chapter175/s175.78.html

(1) A bumper shall be of at least equivalent strength and mounting as the original equipment.

(2) No portion of a bumper may be broken, torn or protruding to create a hazard.

(3) A bumper may not extend beyond the body line or be longer than original equipment, whichever is greater.

(4) A wood plank bumper is permitted on a road service truck or wrecker if it is firmly attached to a regular bumper or equivalent steel backing.

(5) Some part of the main horizontal bumper bar on passenger vehicles shall fall within 16-20 inches above ground level.

(6) Some part of the main horizontal bumper bar on multipurpose passenger vehicles and light trucks shall fall within 16-30 inches above ground level.

 

I'd say the jury is in.

I have the recon bumpers and they are nice. But metal. I'm gonna plasti dip them so the cops can't get me.

Seriously though, I think this cop may have been breathing exhaust fumes.

 

Perusing the interwebs, I found this:

Lift Laws | Suspension Lift Laws By State

Not sure how current it is, but it's still good info.

 

Perusing the interwebs, I found this:
Lift Laws | Suspension Lift Laws By State
Not sure how current it is, but it's still good info.

Outstanding information.

I think what Mikeysip experienced was an over zealous, rookie State Police Officer, that didn't pay as much attention as he/she should have in the Vehicle Code class at his/her academy. What I would do in his case, if it happens again, is thank him/her for their zealousness trying to keep our streets safe, pull out your own version of Pa.'s Vehicle Code and ask them to point out the section which he/she said you violated. Then, when they can't do that, ask if there is a Sgt. or Lt. supervisor that can respond to the scene to assist in the young officer. If there isn't, I would drive directly to the nearest State Police Office or Barracks, seek out that officers supervisor and ask for clarification as to why the officer is violating his civil rights by stopping citizens for made up violations. This works very well if the complainant remains calm, professional and mater of fact. Don't get mad or irritated. But if this kind of Police abuse has to to stop. If we, as citizens, don't report this, it will continue and in some cases, get much worse.

Mikeysip, in his 'Written Warning,' did they write down a vehicle code section which he/she was referring to which he said you were in violation of by putting a much stronger bumper on your jeep?

 

Hey guys thanks for all the responses with citation of the code. 87_WhyJay the written warning was just a sentence stating that i operated the vehicle with the bumpers. I'm glad i didn't receive a ticket out of it.

 

From one who used to issue verbal warnings and/or citations for violations of Ca.'s Vehicle Code (we didn't have written warnings) for 22 years, I would definitely seek out his supervisor. I would ask if Pa. allows their officer to make traffic stops for made up violations or did that Officer just get confused? From what I read on Pa's statutes regarding bumpers, he was 100% wrong and needs some special guidance (remedial training) from his sup's. Most supervisors don't like having rouge officers under them and they might not know he needs help. Guarantee, if that happened to me, I would be down there in a heartbeat.

 

That warning is still attached to your drivers license. If it was me, I would run it to ground, go to the station and get it removed.

 

Agreed, and like others said, the cop may very well not even know or may have a confused perception of the law and it will only get worse until brought to the dept’s attention and clarified.

 

My wife and I were riding our motorcycles from Denver CO to Amarillo TX when a Texas cop pulled us over and gave us a warning for riding side by side. She told us that we had to ride staggered.

As far as I know, riding 2 motorcycles side by side is legal in Texas. Since it was simply a warning, I thanked her and we rode staggered until we were far down the road.
I imagine this kind of stuff happens often. Cops can't know every detail of every law. For the most part, they're just trying to do the best job they can.

Always be polite to all police officers. Their job is tough enough without someone giving them a difficult time. If you're polite and courteous you might get off with a warning. If you're a butt, you just might end up with two or three tickets, rather than just one.

Good Luck, L.M.

 

I imagine this kind of stuff happens often. Cops can't know every detail of every law. For the most part, they're just trying to do the best job they can.

Always be polite to all police officers. Their job is tough enough without someone giving them a difficult time. If you're polite and courteous you might get off with a warning. If you're a butt, you just might end up with two or three tickets, rather than just one.

Good Luck, L.M.

Too right. I used to be a cop years ago. I never made shit up, if I didn't know the law about something, I didn't pretend to. I was just in it to help the community.

Today they have it tough. For some reason there are people out there who think they need to test their rights. And test the patience of the police.

Be good to them, and they'll possibly be good to you. Police are people too.

 

funny how lots of these posts come from PA, too many other cool places to live than to be stuck there

 

Nonsense. Other than the 6 years I spent in the military, I've lived in PA my entire life.

I've owned a CJ, a YJ, and now my current TJ and I've NEVER been pulled over or harassed for driving with no doors, top, or even bumpers.

My weekend car is a 69 Camaro with a healthy big block that's loud AF. I run antique tags which means no state inspection needed and again, NEVER been pulled over or harassed.

I work construction and I start work very early in the morning. Every morning I stop at a local WAWA for coffee and I usually run into a few cops. Several times we've discussed my Jeep with no doors or top and they've all said how cool it is.

They've also commended me for carrying concealed. Never once have they given me any crap about carrying a loaded weapon in their presence. PA seems to be getting a bad rap lately but I think most of it is nonsense.

The OP probably got a rookie cop.

 

To the OP...

Winter Edition JKU comes with AEV styled bumpers... all steel.

The mudflap ticket is a whole other bag. Most states require the bumper to extend lower than the midline of the axle as viewed from the side without mudflaps. My Winter Edition doesn't meet that, nor does the Recon, Polar, and a bunch of other special editions in OEM form.

As for riding side by side, it does vary by state. Georgia yes, Arizona, no. Most safety programs discourage it. Remember Obamas motorcade officers who collided side by side in Florida? However, from a safety standpoint, it provides one less exit for both riders in case of emergency. Id always advise to ride staggered.

 

Cali. doesn't allow ANY amount of tinting on the front side windows. EVERY tint shop will tell you that it IS allowed and illegally tint your windows for you. WHY? Because nobody want's to go to court and testify against the shop that lied to them.

That Sir is incorrect, you are allowed to tint your front side windows.

The percent of visible light allowed through your car windows is called VLT: Visible Light Transmission. The percentage of light allowed through your film and glass in California is very specific. Windshield: Non-reflective tint is allowed on the top 4 inches of the windshield. Front Side windows: Aftermarket film must allow more than 88% of light in, or minimum 70% VLT if combined with factory-tinted windows. Back Side windows: Any darkness can be used. Rear Window: Any darkness can be used.

 

That Sir is incorrect, you are allowed to tint your front side windows.

The percent of visible light allowed through your car windows is called VLT: Visible Light Transmission. The percentage of light allowed through your film and glass in California is very specific. Windshield: Non-reflective tint is allowed on the top 4 inches of the windshield. Front Side windows: Aftermarket film must allow more than 88% of light in, or minimum 70% VLT if combined with factory-tinted windows. Back Side windows: Any darkness can be used. Rear Window: Any darkness can be used.

That is not how I interpreted CVC 26708 (a)(1) A person shall not drive any motor vehicle with any object or material placed, displayed, installed, affixed, or applied upon the windshield or side or rear windows.

It doesn't seem to allow for ANY applied film, no matter what the VLT. Maybe you could cite the section where you are getting your information so NOBODY GETS LED ASTRAY!!!

 

Back to the bumper.


The "Off Road Use Only" sticker used to be on EVERYTHING back in the day. Everything. I remember it clear as day. Often times it was a yellow oval sticker with red lettering. Made the DOT folks happy I guess.

Now, no one is in 100% compliancy and maybe 50% of them put any kind of disclaimer on their website and even fewer put it on their packaging and instructions. There are exceptions. Those that work with manufacturers for third party developed products like Teraflex, AEV and others in the Jeep community.

The Stinger bumper is the one that really gets me. It is illegal as hell on the road but especially here, you se them everywhere. IMO, they are a massive liability. There was a report of a Jeep who had a car pull out in front of it. The stinger protruded the passenger door/window and killed the passenger. I do not know where it took place or what the final outcome was, but sure as hell, a bright attorney could put 2 and 2 together and come up with a reasonable lawsuit for negligence. Sure, the car was at fault for pulling out, but the Jeep was operating illegally.

 

are you from Pa?
if not my guess is the cop seen out of state tags and decided to go fishing
your "bumper code violation" warning was just the excuse.

now if you are from Pa , id stop by his barracks and have a discussion with his supervisor .
have my record cleared and find out why this officer is not aware of the vehicle code

 

You bumper boys better make sure you keep your original equipment on hand just in case. The man is looking for you

 

I've read that the 5 mph safety bumpers are part of the requirements and that the off-road use bumpers that don't include the (?) crush can in them are not legal for road use.

Being made of steel is not as much an issue as what happens to the other guy if you hit someone?

 

Just trying to meet his end of the month citation quota.....

 

Next thing you know you won't be able to drive with no doors on your Wrangler in PA..... :tomatoes:

 

....and stop driving with your leg out of the missing door resting on the bar. its looks more ridiculous than your man bun. i can tell your door is off. you dont need your leg out there to prove it.

 

I have seen the Pa mud flap discussion yet

 

Hey Guys,

I was driving down the PA turnpike and got pulled over by the state police. I was surprised, as i wasn't speeding, but he said he pulled me over because my bumpers were metal and not OEM. I have a Poison Spyder full width brawler in the front and a black mountain Recovery bumper with the tire mount. I was surprised as these are not overly extreme. I was given a written warning and sent on my merry way.

Has anyone run into this before?[/QUOTESounds like a hater to me. I would ignore it.]

 

That is not how I interpreted CVC 26708 (a)(1) A person shall not drive any motor vehicle with any object or material placed, displayed, installed, affixed, or applied upon the windshield or side or rear windows.

Keep on reading.

(d) Notwithstanding subdivision (a), clear, colorless, and transparent material may be installed, affixed, or applied to the front side windows, located to the immediate left and right of the front seat if the following conditions are met:
(1) The material has a minimum visible light transmittance of 88 percent.
(2) The window glazing with the material applied meets all requirements of Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard No. 205 (49 C.F.R. 571.205), including the specified minimum light transmittance of 70 percent and the abrasion resistance of AS–14 glazing, as specified in that federal standard.
(3) The material is designed and manufactured to enhance the ability of the existing window glass to block the sun’s harmful ultraviolet A rays.
(4) The driver has in his or her possession, or within the vehicle, a certificate signed by the installing company certifying that the windows with the material installed meet the requirements of this subdivision and the certificate identifies the installing company and the material’s manufacturer by full name and street address, or, if the material was installed by the vehicle owner, a certificate signed by the material’s manufacturer certifying that the windows with the material installed according to manufacturer’s instructions meet the requirements of this subdivision and the certificate identifies the material’s manufacturer by full name and street address.
(5) If the material described in this subdivision tears or bubbles, or is otherwise worn to prohibit clear vision, it shall be removed or replaced.
(e) Notwithstanding subdivision (a), clear, colorless, and transparent material may be installed, affixed, or applied to the windshield, side, or rear windows of a motor vehicle if the following conditions are met:
(1) The material has a minimum visible light transmittance of 88 percent.
(2) The window glazing with the material applied meets all requirements of Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard No. 205 (49 C.F.R. 571.205), including the specified minimum light transmittance of 70 percent and the abrasion resistance of AS–14 glazing, as specified in that federal standard.
(3) The material is designed and manufactured to enhance the ability of the existing window glass to block the sun’s harmful ultraviolet A rays.
(4) The driver has in his or her possession, or within the vehicle, a certificate signed by a licensed dermatologist certifying that the person should not be exposed to ultraviolet rays because of a medical condition that necessitates clear, colorless, and transparent film material to be installed on the windshield, side, or rear windows.
(5) If the material described in this subdivision tears or bubbles, or is otherwise worn to prohibit clear vision, it shall be removed or replaced.
(Amended by Stats. 2017, Ch. 210, Sec. 1. (AB 1303) Effective January 1, 2018.)

 

Keep on reading.
(d) Notwithstanding subdivision (a), clear, colorless, and transparent material may be installed, affixed, or applied to the front side windows, located to the immediate left and right of the front seat if the following conditions are met:
(1) The material has a minimum visible light transmittance of 88 percent.
(2) The window glazing with the material applied meets all requirements of Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard No. 205 (49 C.F.R. 571.205), including the specified minimum light transmittance of 70 percent and the abrasion resistance of AS–14 glazing, as specified in that federal standard.
(3) The material is designed and manufactured to enhance the ability of the existing window glass to block the sun’s harmful ultraviolet A rays.
(4) The driver has in his or her possession, or within the vehicle, a certificate signed by the installing company certifying that the windows with the material installed meet the requirements of this subdivision and the certificate identifies the installing company and the material’s manufacturer by full name and street address, or, if the material was installed by the vehicle owner, a certificate signed by the material’s manufacturer certifying that the windows with the material installed according to manufacturer’s instructions meet the requirements of this subdivision and the certificate identifies the material’s manufacturer by full name and street address.
(5) If the material described in this subdivision tears or bubbles, or is otherwise worn to prohibit clear vision, it shall be removed or replaced.
(e) Notwithstanding subdivision (a), clear, colorless, and transparent material may be installed, affixed, or applied to the windshield, side, or rear windows of a motor vehicle if the following conditions are met:
(1) The material has a minimum visible light transmittance of 88 percent.
(2) The window glazing with the material applied meets all requirements of Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard No. 205 (49 C.F.R. 571.205), including the specified minimum light transmittance of 70 percent and the abrasion resistance of AS–14 glazing, as specified in that federal standard.
(3) The material is designed and manufactured to enhance the ability of the existing window glass to block the sun’s harmful ultraviolet A rays.
(4) The driver has in his or her possession, or within the vehicle, a certificate signed by a licensed dermatologist certifying that the person should not be exposed to ultraviolet rays because of a medical condition that necessitates clear, colorless, and transparent film material to be installed on the windshield, side, or rear windows.
(5) If the material described in this subdivision tears or bubbles, or is otherwise worn to prohibit clear vision, it shall be removed or replaced.
(Amended by Stats. 2017, Ch. 210, Sec. 1. (AB 1303) Effective January 1, 2018.)

Did you miss this part, clear, colorless, and transparent material.. Not Tinted any amount. Bottom line, ANY APPLIED 'TINTED' MATERIAL CAN GET YOU STOPPED in California. You may receive a verbal warning or you may be CITED to include a fine, even if you remove the tint!!! The officer has the discretion to make it a "fix-it" ticket or a full blown, point against your driving record, moving violation.

BUT, this is very new: (Amended by Stats. 2017, Ch. 210, Sec. 1. (AB 1303) Effective January 1, 2018.)

When I retired in 2005, it WAS different. Maybe Cali. is lightening up a bit from what they used to be. I'll have do some more DEEP READING!!! The bottom line is the 'case law' that comes from these statutes and defines what they really mean to the motoring public. Touche MannyN! You may be right.

 

Warning citation for bumpers

Allow me to ramble for a minute. 26 yr cop, from Patrolman to Lieutenant, interstate traffic assignment to Professional Standards and academy instructor in several areas.

1. Do NOT argue with a cop who has you pulled over, it will only make matters worse if you challenge his/her education or knowledge of the law. Be polite and give them only the information required to issue a summons for court. Your attorney told you not to engage in any discussions or agree to any searches. Period.

2. If you receive a wrongful citation due to poor training or retention of facts, sign the ticket promising to appear in court and go straight to the Magistrate or City Judge with your copy as well as your data or photographic evidence. The ticket will likely be dismissed if you can show you were right.

3. Follow up with the officer's internal affairs/professional standards unit to make a complaint. He/she will be told to stay away from you until the matter is resolved and they will avoid you like the plague.

4. Except for the smallest incorporated area with no tax base cops have no quota to issue citations. If their assignment is funded by a grant a number of contacts are required and must be documented. It may be two per hour, but they have to show contact with the public and not just sitting at a donut shop.

5. Laws regarding motor vehicles vary widely from state to state, do your research before you see the magistrate to contest a citation. Make copies of the appropriate state code, etc. to make the Magistrate's decision easy.

6. Keep on Jeepin'!

 

1. Do NOT argue with a cop who has you pulled over, it will only make matters worse if you challenge his/her education or knowledge of the law. Be polite and give them only the information required to issue a summons for court. Your attorney told you not to engage in any discussions or agree to any searches. Period.

2. If you receive a wrongful citation due to poor training or retention of facts, sign the ticket promising to appear in court and go straight to the Magistrate or City Judge with your copy as well as your data or photographic evidence. The ticket will likely be dismissed if you can show you were right.

3. Follow up with the officer's internal affairs/professional standards unit to make a complaint. He/she will be told to stay away from you until the matter is resolved and they will avoid you like the plague.

Plus, plus, plus.

Basically, shut up and follow up. Poor training is a more likely explanation than simple ignorance, and should be addressed properly, once you've done your research.

#2 is a huge problem, because ignorance going through a cop's head sounds like "Is that illegal? I don't know, I ought to check." What happened here, to put it politely, sounds more like "That's illegal, I know what line of which subparagraph is being violated and I'm going to tell him." Except that he seems to be incorrect. So at best, poor training.

Which brings us to my take on the OP's day. It sounds to me like simple harassment/fishing. Nothing juicy was found, so a verbal warning for something BS yet believable gets issued, and hopefully the motorist feels lucky and drives off. Whether the cop is wrong or evil, you're not going to improve things on the spot- and either way, the rest of the world needs to be notified. Worst case, there are only so many times his supervisors' supervisors are going to take "needs more training" as an acceptable answer.

 

Former cops arguing? I'm in! op:

 

Were no arguing, we're agreeing and comparing notes.

 

I had an officer get on his speaker next to me at a light yelling about how EVERYTHING on my Jeep was illegal. Granted, I did have my fog lights on, but it was night time. I have a Smittybilt XRC gen 2 front bumper and all my regular lights are LED(no auxiliaries YET other than the fogs). I live in Tennessee and the law looks the same as the PA one. I found ALL the current “mod laws” and saved them to the home screen of my phone now...just in case. I think he may have just been jealous 😌

 

Being Retired-LEO, I would have signaled him (polite hand gestures) to the shoulder so we could talk. I would have expressed my concerns that I did not intend to buy an illegal vehicle and PLEASE, could he let me know what I have to take off to make it 100% legal in HIS jurisdiction. He would have LOVED that, IF he was the expert that he though he was. AND you might have made a friend in the right place.

 

roger that, only commenting on what i've seen here, lots of peeps not happy there when talking about road laws, etc....everyplace isn't for everyone, pa, ain't for me....my new country hit..

 

Got pulled over years ago in my CJ. Was told my tail lights were dim. Took my info and when he came back asked where I got my top. Perhaps it is as simple as the cop wanted a closer look at something on jour rig:bop: