Can't be on dry pavement.

 

Happens on slippery pavement while turning with 4H in gear. ☹

 

The Wrangler has PART TIME four wheel drive. When you engage the transfer case, your front and rear axles are locked together. When you make a turn, your front and rear wheels have to travel at different speeds... But since you've locked the axles together, the front and rear axles wind up fighting each other.

Part time 4WD is only for slippery surfaces like snow, ice, mud, or sand. That binding-up you feel when making sharp turns on non-slippery surfaces while in 4WD can cause drive train damage.

 

When turning in 4WD, it is necessary for at least one tire to slide on the surface. Like others have said, running in 4WD on dry pavement can have catastrophic consequences. Since you will only be using 4WD on slippery or loose surfaces, you shouldn’t be taking turns fast enough that fishtailing would be an issue. To further reduce strain on the drivetrain, only turn as sharply as necessary. In other words, make your turns as wide as possible to reduce the amount of slippage necessary at the tires.


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The only time you should use 4WD on pavement would be snow. Don't use it on wet pavement.

 

Don’t engage 4WD unless on snow, ice, mud, sand, or the like. Do not use 4WD on wet or dry roads, you will damage your Jeep.

 

I think I hear what you’re saying. Good to hear this just might be normal as you’re describing. It’s a Wrangler-specific concern that is common? Anyone in Cleveland, Ohio who can demonstrate their Wrangler turn action? I love my Wrangler so much but making turns with 4H is a different breed.

 

It is a part time 4WD concern, in other vehicles like pick up trucks too for example. As I mentioned earlier full time 4WD and AWD can be driven under any conditions. When I ordered my Liberty there were two 4WD options. A part time 4WD system, called Command Trac primarily for off road use, and Select Trac II, a full time 4WD system with a switch to engage and disengage it. It has 2H, and a 4H and 4L mode. Not to get too deep, the part time 4WD system is a bit stronger. I went with the full time system since it was going to be a commuter and my wife the primary driver. I didn't want to worry about her having to learn how to operate the part time 4WD, or worry about her forgetting to switch back to 2H if the roads were cleared. The truth is full time 4WD is better suited for snow.

 

Steering will feel different with 4-WD engaged, its normal. Use 4-WD whenever you feel the need but avoid sharp turns in 4-WD on dry pavement where you are better off without the front-end engaged anyway.

:welcome:

 

You should read up on when to/not to use a part time 4WD. It really sounds like you're using it when you maybe shouldn't be. It's also possible (and common) that some tires can cause slippage in rain.

As mentioned, the Wrangler's 4WD system is purely mechanical. Engaging it and taking turns at speed on pavement (even wet) is going to put a lot of strain on it.

The 4wd system is very different than full time systems or AWD, which are both meant to be on and will compensate on their own for pavement.

 

All Wheel Drive or Full Time 4x4 systems have a clutch in the system between the front and rear differentials that allow the front and rear wheels to turn at slightly different rates without binding. They are also designed to primarily be used on pavement.

Part time 4x4 such as on the Jeep Wrangler (and other vehicles) is primarily designed to be used in real off road situations. If you turn tight enough even in 2WD, you will feel very slight binding in the front at full lock. In 4x4 mode that becomes more noticeable.

Most driving in 2WD, you should not notice any difference until you turn tight to get into a parking slot for example and you should not notice any difference as to control, just a bit of rubbing. In 4WD, hopefully the turn would be on slippery surface, you would feel a slight bucking in the front when turning tight.

If you feel slippage in the back that feels like your Jeep wants to fishtail, I would look seriously at the tires. Is this a new Jeep or one you purchased used? If it is a used Jeep that you purchased from an individual, the tires may be worn.

 

Not that I ever plan on doing it but theoretically could you drive for miles in a straight line on dry pavement in 4WD (4H) without damaging anything?
Just curious

 

Not that I ever plan on doing it but theoretically could you drive for miles in a straight line on dry pavement in 4WD (4H) without damaging anything?
Just curious

In theory yes you could-- it is when you turn the wheel that the inside and outside tires must travel different distances in comparison to each other and the rear wheels. The outside wheel has further distance to travel which will cause binding up of the 4 wd system. Also why if you have a rear locker sometimes on a tight turn you can scrub a tire. At the drag strip some 4wd owners will put it in 4wd for better launches-- straight is good--turns bad

 

Also, what tires does your Jeep have on it. If stock tires, some stock tires are better / different than others. For example, the BFG KM Mud Terrain tires that come on some Jeeps do not do very well on slippery, wet, or icy, pavement.
But if the Jeep is fighting you when you are trying to turn in 4H that is the Jeep telling you it should not be in 4H but rather 2H.

 

But if the Jeep is fighting you when you are trying to turn in 4H that is the Jeep telling you it should not be in 4H but rather 2H.

For some reason I always have a tough time with that statement. It kind of leaves people with the feeling that you shouldn't feel anything on a slippery surface, and that's just not so.



The jeep is going to fight no matter what surface you're on. You will feel the slippage and wheel hop on any surface. You will also feel the u joints bind and try to straighten the steering with each 1/2 revolution of the axle shafts. So the fight is there all the time. It's just not as violent on slippery surfaces



When it comes down to it, it's more a matter of experience in deciding what fight is acceptable and normal vs what fight is not.

 

I'd recommend taking time when theres no body on the road and just drive the jeep around in snow and get a feel for driving in 2wd and 4wd. You'd be surprised what the Jeep can handle in 2wd if you have the right tires and keep your speeds down. You should only need 4wd if the roads completely covered. Practice and get a feel for what the jeep will want to do.

 

You might want to read your owner's manual.

Running in 4wd on pavement (even wet pavement) and making turns where you feel the binding will put you at risk to damage or break expensive parts (u joints, axles, aluminum transfer case housing). Just don't do it.

Part time 4wd is NOT the same as AWD.

Part time 4wd is a direct mechanical connection of the front and rear axles through the transfer case. It does not allow for different front to rear axle speeds when making turns. It works in snow and on other slippery surfaces such as sand, dirt, mud and gravel because the surface allows the front and rear wheels to slip and operate at different speeds. This front to rear slippage is prevented on pavement (and slick rock), which puts very high mechanical binding loads on the drivetrain when turning. If the tires slip first, you get the hop or jerking feeling. If the tire does not slip, something mechanical breaks.

AWD, which can be used on pavement and is great on wet pavement, has a slipper or viscous clutch inside the transfer case, which allows the front and rear axles to operate at different speeds when turning on pavement. This internal slippage avoids mechanical binding. This sounds great and might make you wonder why all 4wd vehicles don't use AWD instead of part time 4wd. The disadvantage of AWD (and the reason off road oriented vehicles still use part time 4wd) is that the slipper clutch can and will overheat and potentially fail if used a lot, such as in muddy off road conditions.

Bottom line is part time 4wd is not designed to be engaged on paved or other high traction surfaces. Even wet pavement has too much traction for the use of part time 4wd without damage to mechanical components.

 

Maybe it’s just me but I shift out of 4H and back to 2H when I’m turning unless the weather is horrible.

The other day we got snow and ice I was sliding and 2wd cars were struggling. I shifted in 4H for the most part but some of my turns the intersection looked a little better so I just shifted back to 2H.

It’s what I love about shifting on the fly. If I’m slipping I shift to 4H if I’m worried I might bind up I shift back to to 2H.


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Thank you for the feedback. I’m going to keep it in 2H unless (When) real snow accumulation happens. Must watch more videos to visually register and comprehend the mechanics of this different creature on four wheels and a hard top

 

Jeep's 4WD is strictly for traction, not for turning corners.

 

IMHO, if you're starting from a stop or turning a corner in slippery conditions and you get wheel spin or fishtailing, you're driving too aggressively for conditions. Use less throttle and less speed! It's not a race, and 4WD doesn't help you slow or stop -- which is a much greater concern that going fast.


I haven't driven my Jeep in snow yet, but I have plenty of experience driving FWD passenger cars in snow. As long as fresh snow isn't deep enough to scrape the undercarriage -- even without mud/snow or studded tires -- a light throttle application in pulses (to allow the wheels to stop spinning and hook back up with traction) is all that's needed. Don't need 4WD if your tires aren't bald and they're not overinflated.


Packed snow is worse since it's more slippery and tends to have an icelike layer on top. This is where you can get wheel spin and fishtailing starting from a stop or turning a corner even with a tiny amount of throttle or speed. This is where 4WD is appropriate to get moving and corner safely -- but if there are patches of pavement causing drivetrain bind-up, you shouldn't be in 4WD because you don't need it. If you think you want 4WD in patchy conditions, what you really need is to slow down or use a vehicle with AWD.

 

When in 4-hi on snowy roads, I always do power slides around corners. If there are dry patches, I put it in 2-hi and slow down.

 

Thank you, I will try too.

 

cue the OP in 1.................2.................3....................:beerdrinking:

 

Piggy backing this thread. I've been wheeling twice in my stock jk. I've left it in 4hi and just drove slow. I didnt do any crazy obstacles. So is this bad or could I have already messed up my jeep??

I've never had the banging or binding that's been described here.

 

When on dirt, mud, snow, or any other surface that fairly easily allows wheel slip there is no reason to worry about having it in 4H or 4L depending on how fast or slow you need to go. The issue is, when you are on a grippy surface like pavement that does not easily allow the tires to slip.
Another example can be the slick rock you encounter out in Moab. Driving on that in 4L as is typically done can make tight turns hard to make and it also causes excessive tire wear. You will actually see the rock turned black from people driving over it in 4 wheel drive. Generally, no damage will come from doing so, because most of the time the tires are able to slip enough to allow them to travel at different speeds.
But the whole purpose of 4 wheel drive on a Jeep is to engage it off road for better traction and the ability to slowly go where you want (within the limits of you and your Jeep).
You should be fine.

 

I did not read 90% of the posts so it probably has already been said. MOAB. 1000 of acres of slick rock as hard and more sticky than asphalt. People drive (me included) for hours crawling around that place in 4lo and 4 h. I know how to drive in snow and ice too lol. I drive in this stuff all winter long. Shifting into 4H is not going to hurt anything for short stints on dry pavement.

 

here is the video explaining the Command Trac 4x4 system

 

What nobody has mentioned so far, the short wheelbase does not help you. You did not say what model you have, but any 2 door Jeep gets squirrely in the rain. Proper tires are a must.

 

I've seen a lot of doomsday calling in the previous posts, so, just my 2 cents since I've always driven in snow and we literally just went over traditional 4WD systems like Command Trac in kinematics- if you're driving in conditions that warrant the use of 4WD (snow, mud, snowy mud), then don't worry too much about the wear and tear due to the locked transfer case. The change in turn radius is a result of the front and rear driveshafts turning at the same speed, but the front and rear wheels, both right and left side, turning at different speeds. When you're in 2WD, the rear wheels push the front wheels and the Jeep turns tighter. In 4WD, the front wheels are also pushing, and the rate at which they turn is now controlled by the turning of the rear axle (sort of), which means the turn is going to be wider. If you're fishtailing going into corners, either slow down, turn wider, or embrace (and control) the slide. But no, there's nothing wrong with the wheels acting differently- that's how the system is designed.

 

reading these threads I am amazed that I have been able to drive in the winter time for the last 45 years. I just realized I have absolutely no idea how to drive in the snow or ice and have no business driving.

 

Well... I've been driving Canadian snow covered roads for about the same amount of time and in spite of that, I say we both desperately need to take lessons from AGGIE!

 

good stuff guys...

I have to say that I am pretty excited to test my recently installed truetrac this winter. I plan to take it easy until I have a good handle on how it truly works in each condition. As for black ice, I plan to say way far away from it, but if it happens it happens I will deal with it then.