[mdutton]

I am in the process of regearing to 4.88's. Installed an ARB locker and chromoly shafts in the rear. Starting the front axle ring and pinion this weekend. The budget does not allow an ARB and stronger shafts for Dana 30.
Is it worth $500 to put in a TrueTrac limited slip and keep the stock shafts. Will it have any handling draw backs on road and will make big enough difference off-road?

 

[UnlimitedLJ04]

i'm running a TrueTrac in the front. i love it.

 

[Jerry Bransford]

First, a Truetrac won't even be noticeable when you're in 2wd. I ran front and rear Truetracs for 4-5 years & they were absolutely 100% well behaved on the street in 2wd. I never noticed their presence. That was the problem with them offroad, I never noticed them there either. They just didn't help enough once the trails got uneven enough that I couldn't keep all four tires planted firmly on the trail surface. LSDs are great on slick flat surfaces all four tires are in contact, it's when all four tires are not firmly in contact with the ground when to me, limited slip differentials (even the superb Truetrac) become useless. Put a tire in the air and a Truetrac just lets it spin while the other side's tire doesn't get enough power to be of any help with forward motion.

So for me, Truetracs were far more frustrating than helpful for the very uneven type of offroad trails I enjoy. That was even with the usual technique of applying brake to help the Truetrac hook up better. I ended up replacing both Truetracs with lockers and the improvement in offroad performance was startling, nothing short of dramatic.

On the trails I enjoy doing, the only people that struggle are those with nothing but limited slip differentials. Most end up upgrading to true lockers, which is why the Jeep Rubicon comes with front and rear lockers and not front and rear limited slip differentials.

For your front axle, I would install a true locker like an Aussie, Lockrite, or No-Slip. All three are inexpensive, easily installed, and perfectly well behaved on the street so long as you're in 2wd. Front automatic lockers are well behaved in 2wd, they only fully engage (lock hard) once you shift into 4Hi or 4Lo.

Having had both f/r limited slip differentials and f/r lockers, I'd never even consider going back to LSDs. It's my strongest possible personal opinion that those who say limited slip differentials are good enough for difficult offroad trails just aren't doing difficult enough trails. That's from many years of personal ownership experience with both lockers and limited slips.

 

[Goalieme]

I like my TT up front. I have gotten into rock crawling and wish I had a locker now. Other than wheels in the air I have absolutely no complaints. Rarely know they are there except in a good way. No real regrets just getting into the one area that they don't excel at.

 

[Goalieme]

...and Jerry beat me to the punch.

 

[Jaxon1023]

Yeah I can't wait to get my 8.8 with full case detroit. My spartan up front works awesome though

 

[mikeyapproved]

Hi.

True trac in the frt sucks when trying to use 4 wheel drive in winter driving conditions... Iowa gets snow, so if you plan on daily driving using 4 wheel drive, I would stay away from a true trac...

jmho

mikey

 

[mdutton]

I do not daily drive it but I do drive it some in the snow. In what way does it suck? Does push or pull or what?

 

[Jrozar]

Another yes for the TT, I have one in the front of mine and love it in the snow, ice, mud, sand and rocks....I also did a Warn front hub conversion.

 

[giles45shop]

I had one in my LP30 w/ 4.88's. No issues at all on the street in 2WD, you didn't even know it was there. We don't have snow here in FL, so I never ran 4WD on the street and can't comment on that.

It worked well off-road, but my experience was similar to Jerry's in that there would be sometimes in rocks where you would not have both front tires pulling. It was not an issue in sand/mud, etc., but just in some specific situations like a wheel in the air or one tire pressed against a large rock trying to climb it and the second one in a sandy/slippery hole.

I bought my Jeep with the gears and lockers (it had a Detroit in the back w/ Super 35) already installed which actually was one of the other drawbacks. Since the Truetrac is a full case limited slip, there was no easy (cheap) way to change it for a "lunchbox" style locker. In order for me to do that, I would have had to purchase a replacement stock carrier for the 4.88's, get that completely setup (shims, pattern, etc.) and then put in a lunchbox locker. At that point, you might as well put in a selective locker like and ARB/OX, since you have to re-do everything.

As a side note, my new axles (D44's) came with a Yukon Grizzly locker in the front. This is basically the same as a Detroit locker. I was a little worried about running this on the street, but in 2WD, you don't even notice it. 4WD off-road you do notice it a little (tends to push a little and the steering whines a little more), but so far I haven't personally encountered any compelling reason to change it to a selectable locker.

 

[Jerry Bransford]

Hi.

True trac in the frt sucks when trying to use 4 wheel drive in winter driving conditions... Iowa gets snow, so if you plan on daily driving using 4 wheel drive, I would stay away from a true trac...

jmho

mikey

Do you personally actually have a Detroit Truetrac limited slip differential? What you are saying more accurately describes a front locker like a Detroit Locker, not a Truetrac limited slip differential.

 

[MTJeepTJ]

Do you personally actually have a Detroit Truetrac limited slip differential? What you are saying more accurately describes a front locker like a Detroit Locker, not a Truetrac limited slip differential.

Honestly tho Jerry, I experienced both your description of the tru-trac and the winter time description he mentioned. I hated my tru-trac, Not that it was poor craftsmanship or anything. But it sucked for off-road wheeling cause it didnt work, if one tire was bound up the other just spun while the bound up one just kicked around a little. Then when we would get some pretty decent snow on the roads the thing would actually work a little and try to pull the front end back straight when cornering. I quickly learned how to drive around its characteristics tho. Never got in a wreck or lost control once i got used to it. I had my tru-trac in my YJ that had a currie high pinion 9" rear with a detroit locker and dana 30 front with a tru-trac and the rig was SOA. So it drove a little special to begin with ha.

 

[Jerry Bransford]

Honestly tho Jerry, I experienced both your description of the tru-trac and the winter time description he mentioned. I hated my tru-trac, Not that it was poor craftsmanship or anything. But it sucked for off-road wheeling cause it didnt work, if one tire was bound up the other just spun while the bound up one just kicked around a little. Then when we would get some pretty decent snow on the roads the thing would actually work a little and try to pull the front end back straight when cornering. I quickly learned how to drive around its characteristics tho. Never got in a wreck or lost control once i got used to it. I had my tru-trac in my YJ that had a currie high pinion 9" rear with a detroit locker and dana 30 front with a tru-trac and the rig was SOA. So it drove a little special to begin with ha.

My thought on that is the steering issue on the icy roads you complained about was caused by the rear Detroit Locker which is well known to cause understeer and not the front Truetrac which is normally very well behaved on ice & snow.

 

[UnlimitedLJ04]

Hi.

True trac in the frt sucks when trying to use 4 wheel drive in winter driving conditions... Iowa gets snow, so if you plan on daily driving using 4 wheel drive, I would stay away from a true trac...

jmho

mikey

my front and rear TrueTracs in 4wd do excellent in the snow & winter driving conditions. their excellence in winter conditions is why I got them....I frequently drive in the mountains of Colorado to get to ski resorts in the winter.

But it sucked for off-road wheeling cause it didnt work, if one tire was bound up the other just spun while the bound up one just kicked around a little.

sounds like you had a misconception with how they work to begin with, and would have benefited more from a full case locker instead.

Then when we would get some pretty decent snow on the roads the thing would actually work a little and try to pull the front end back straight when cornering.

any LSD or locker that tries to force the front tires to turn at the same speeds will pull the front straight when cornering. fully locked front ends are even harder to steer than the LSD TrueTrac.

you can watch & feel this phenomena with the weight off the front tires. rotate the driveshaft and begin turning the knuckle at the same time. you'll feel the rotation getting hard to maintain the more you steer because the u-joint's aren't truly constantly velocity. when articulated, they speed up & slow down a little bit as they rotate. but in a locked front end, both sides are fixed & forced to rotate at the same speed.....hence the front end really want to stay moving straight.

 

[MTJeepTJ]

And I would accept that answer except I had only a rear locker for years before i installed my front tru-trac. Once installed it made icy road driving even worse. Mainly with sharp corners then giving it a fair amount of throttle. But im not trying to argue, just stating my experiences. And the reason i said what vehicle it was in is cause my yj drove VERY shitty. Spring over with no sway or trac bars. I was aware of what i did to the Jeep tho, a tru-trac in something that drives like my TJ may be a different story. But i have a rubicon so i no longer worry about stuff like that.:bop:I was sorta just tossing my 2 cents in and hoping for a dollar back. Never happens tho.

 

[MTJeepTJ]

:whistling:

my front and rear TrueTracs in 4wd do excellent in the snow & winter driving conditions. their excellence in winter conditions is why I got them....I frequently drive in the mountains of Colorado to get to ski resorts in the winter.


sounds like you had a misconception with how they work to begin with, and would have benefited more from a full case locker instead.



any LSD or locker that tries to force the front tires to turn at the same speeds will pull the front straight when cornering. fully locked front ends are even harder to steer than the LSD TrueTrac.

you can watch & feel this phenomena with the weight off the front tires. rotate the driveshaft and begin turning the knuckle at the same time. you'll feel the rotation getting hard to maintain the more you steer because the u-joint's aren't truly constantly velocity. when articulated, they speed up & slow down a little bit as they rotate. but in a locked front end, both sides are fixed & forced to rotate at the same speed.....hence the front end really want to stay moving straight.

Yes, i agree with this post UnlimitedLJ. I learned all this a while ago too. I havent had a tru-trac equipped Jeep in 10 years. My last post was directed at Jerrys comment, I was only throwing my experience in the ring. I just learned that SELECTABLE lockers are for ME:thumb:

 

[IslandTJ]

Lunchbox it. People who opt for TrueTrac limited slips are a niche segment (myself included). My Jeep experiences its share of street driving, as it is my daily commuter and during the winter time on snow covered streets, I will often engage 4hi and the control the TrueTrac provides is assuring.

As many have said, in 2wd it is transparent. As for a difference off road, again it is only a limited slip and will demonstrate its weakness on the rocks and on off camber terrain. If you want a difference, it's much better to lock your diff .

 

[mdutton]

Well after some more thought I decided to invest the extra money and order an ARB. I have to run the stock shafts for now but if they break sometime I will upgrade them then. It will be hard to be disappointed with a selectable full locker long term

 

[mikeyapproved]

I do not daily drive it but I do drive it some in the snow. In what way does it suck? Does push or pull or what?

Really bad torque steer when on the throttle..... and slippery changing conditions.

i drove without 4x4 engaged most of the time in those conditions cause it was so unpredictable to drive

That was 10 years ago, maybe they changed the design some since then??

mikey

 

[Jerry Bransford]

Really bad torque steer when on the throttle..... and slippery changing conditions.

i drove without 4x4 engaged most of the time in those conditions cause it was so unpredictable to drive

That was 10 years ago, maybe they changed the design some since then??

mikey

That still sounds like it was the Detroit Locker up front & not the Detroit Truetrac. I had a Detroit Truetrac in the front of my TJ years ago & it had zero torque steer.

Are you absolutely 100% certain you had a Detroit Truetrac up front and not a Detroit Locker???