[MOPWR2U]

I would like a little stiffer than stock rear swaybar. Is there a difference in stiffness between the stock rear swaybars of a 2-door JK and a 4-door JK, 2014 models? I have a 2-door JK and would switch to a 4-door rear swaybar if it is a little stiffer.

 

[m998dna]

Go to the dealer and measure one on the lot.....

.

 

[kjeeper10]

No difference. The only higher rate swaybar I know if is made by Full traction.

Edit: links I click on are going right to the site. Looks like it may not be available no more.

 

[m998dna]

I would like a little stiffer than stock rear swaybar. Is there a difference in stiffness between the stock rear swaybars of a 2-door JK and a 4-door JK, 2014 models? I have a 2-door JK and would switch to a 4-door rear swaybar if it is a little stiffer.

Addco and Hellwig are well known for their HD anti-swaybars. Both make them for the JK but I would confirm fittment before buying. There appears to be a disconnect in the years available.

Hellwig - Load and Sway Control Products

I've always been partial to Addco because they make OEM bars.

Jeep - Addco - Addco

.

 

[kjeeper10]

Just curious as to why you want to run a thicker sway bar?

 

[MOPWR2U]

Overall the Jeep handles really good, and is better than other lifted Jeeps I've owned, or ridden in. But the rear of the Jeep feels like it leans more than the front when on road, which induces an oversteer in turns. I have an Anti-rock front sway bar, which should be softer than stock. But the front end feels fine, it stays pretty flat in turns. I thought I would try a stiffer rear swaybar first. If that doesn't improve handling I've thought of changing to a long arm suspension for better control arm geometry. I've also thought about looking into different rear track bars. I think my track bar geometry is ok.

 

[Pressurized]

I'm obviously not riding in your Jeep and I'm not feeling what you feel, but normally a stiffer rear bar will increase over steer. The stiffer rear bar will lift the inside wheel sooner causing it to break traction earlier.

Found this: http://www.4wheelparts.com/Lift-Kit..._KlBRD9z_jl_fKBhQkSJABDKqiX63yZuNOA9oSEvuzFhchZIUok08c3ihQY2dsnQ19YJBoCm-nw_wcB

But "designed to reduce understeer"

*

 

[kjeeper10]

There it is ^^ I think FT discontinued it.

 

[spinlock]

I'm obviously not riding in your Jeep and I'm not feeling what you feel, but normally a stiffer rear bar will increase over steer. The stiffer rear bar will lift the inside wheel sooner causing it to break traction earlier.

Found this: Full Traction Suspension Part FTS7150 - Heavy-Duty Rear Sway Bar - Fits 2007 to 2015 Wrangler, Rubicon and Unlimited - 4 Wheel Parts

But "designed to reduce understeer"

*

This is correct, increasing the torsional stiffness of the rear sway bar will increase the oversteer. You can do some testing by increasing/decreasing the tire pressure of the rear tires relative to the front tires which will have a similar effect although not as strong.

If you really want to focus on handling you need a lift kit design control roll and instant centers combined with dynamically tuned coils and shocks. The best in this category is the AEV kit. Just keep in mind we are talking about a Jeep.

 

[kjeeper10]

I noticed the higher rear roll center. Yeah in itself should limit oversteer.

 

[MOPWR2U]

Ok, so if a stiffer rear sway bar increases oversteer, then I may need to experiment with disconnecting the rear sway bar, which should decrease oversteer. If it improves the oversteer, but induces understeer, I may need a rear sway bar that is less stiff than stock. A rear Anti-rock to match the front Anti-rock might be what I need. That seems counter intuitive though, because it feels like the rear end is leaning too much in turns. Maybe I'm misinterpreting what I feel as oversteer, when it isn't. When you enter a turn, and the rear of the Jeep starts to lean, you have to turn the steering wheel back toward center somewhat, to decrease the steering input, or you will tend to turn too much. That sounds like oversteer to me.

My last lifted Jeep had an AEV lift on it, but it was a four door JK, and not a two door, so maybe not quite comparable with handling. The rear of that Jeep cornered flatter, but the front leaned more than my current Jeep. Overall I would say they were about even in handling, with the edge going to the four door, probably just because it was a four door.

Yes, we are talking about a Jeep. I don't expect great handling, but if I could get better handling with a little tweaking here and there it would be worth trying.

 

[rjacobs]

are your fox shocks adjustable? Some of the remote reservoir models are, some are not.

Over steer is typically when the rear end really steps out of line compared to the front and usually results in a slide in an extreme occurrence. Understeer is when you turn and the front end just plows straight on ahead.

I dont think sway bars are the answer here. Shock valving can have a lot to do with what you are feeling. The shock may not be controlling the rear suspension very well.

 

[Imped]

Swap out your front Currie torsion bar for a larger diameter bar....Currie sells them. Increasing the front rate while leaving the rear rate alone should get you closer to the factory suspension balance, generally speaking. To me, it sounds like you've got a lag between input and output caused by body roll. I think you'd really like a stiffer front torsion bar and a rear AR. Properly setup, balanced torsion bar setups are very nice....great handling on the road with great stability off of it. I did the homework on my TJ and the results are excellent.

DO NOT remove the rear sway bar all together. You'll just have too much understeer and too much body roll. With a coil/link suspension, you really want the countering sway bars on either end and there are very few exceptions to that rule. This is a very complex subject and is being dramatically simplified in this thread so try the above recommendation simplicity's sake.

 

[JKJP]

I've used anti rock on past jeeps. Loved them for ease of use, loved them off road, but I really disliked them on the road. So much so that I would put my stock bar back on to drive on the street, then put the anti rock on when I was going off road. Kinda defeats the purpose.

 

[MOPWR2U]

Swap out your front Currie torsion bar for a larger diameter bar....Currie sells them. Increasing the front rate while leaving the rear rate alone should get you closer to the factory suspension balance, generally speaking. To me, it sounds like you've got a lag between input and output caused by body roll. I think you'd really like a stiffer front torsion bar and a rear AR. Properly setup, balanced torsion bar setups are very nice....great handling on the road with great stability off of it. I did the homework on my TJ and the results are excellent.

DO NOT remove the rear sway bar all together. You'll just have too much understeer and too much body roll. With a coil/link suspension, you really want the countering sway bars on either end and there are very few exceptions to that rule. This is a very complex subject and is being dramatically simplified in this thread so try the above recommendation simplicity's sake.

I've already got the larger diameter front torsion bar in my Anti-rock, so maybe all I need is the rear Anti-rock. I had only planned on disconnecting the rear sway bar temporarily, to see what effect it had. If the oversteer went away, but body roll increased, I would know that a rear Anti-rock would be a good mid-point between no rear sway bar, and what I have now.

 

[Gotlime?]

Full-Traction still makes that bar: Full-Traction - Jeep JK Wrangler

I think I'm going to order one and try it out.

 

[Raspy]

I think you have two different situations there.
A thicker rear bar will increase oversteer, but what you are describing is not oversteer. You are describing having to correct with the steering wheel, but not while sliding. And you mention too much lean in the body. While lifted, the control arms run at a steeper angle. When leaning, the outside rear arms flatten out which moves the axle slightly rearward on that side. This is a bit of rear wheel steering that tends to make the rear feel like it's coming around or sliding or oversteering. So if the body leaned less, you'd have less of that effect. So stronger front and rear bars would help, but reduce your off road articulation. Just a stronger rear bar would help too, but make the Jeep less stable in hard cornering by putting extra load on the outside rear tire and unloading the inside rear tire. You could spin out easier.

Bigger bars (front and rear) would help on dry pavement, but hurt off road. And a bigger rear bar only will make the Jeep less stable, especially in wet conditions.

Bigger tires and lifting come with a price and redesigning only part of the suspension leads to unexpected problems. A 2dr Jeep is not the most stable vehicle to begin with.

 

[MOPWR2U]

Thanks Raspy, that makes a lot of sense, and may be exactly what I am trying to describe. I have AEV geometry correction brackets on the front, so the front control arms are fairly flat. I always wondered why AEV didn't make rear control arm geometry correction brackets. They say, because they are not needed. But if the rear control arms were flatter it would decrease tendency to rear steer. Changing to a long arm suspension with proper geometry, like Synergy, would probably help this situation as well.

Since I started this thread I have made one change to the Jeep, I changed from 35x12.50 tires to 37x13.50 tires, on the same wheels. Same tire brand, and same tread, just a bigger size. Nothing else on the Jeep was changed, and now the handling is better. I'm having a hard time explaining why that made such a difference, but the Jeep is much nicer to drive now. Everything about it feels better.

 

[64Chevy]

Here's a good place to see what many changes do in terms of oversteer and understeer:

Massive List of Solutions to Understeer/Oversteer | The Smoking Tire

 

[kjeeper10]

Thanks Raspy, that makes a lot of sense, and may be exactly what I am trying to describe. I have AEV geometry correction brackets on the front, so the front control arms are fairly flat. I always wondered why AEV didn't make rear control arm geometry correction brackets. They say, because they are not needed. But if the rear control arms were flatter it would decrease tendency to rear steer. Changing to a long arm suspension with proper geometry, like Synergy, would probably help this situation as well. Since I started this thread I have made one change to the Jeep, I changed from 35x12.50 tires to 37x13.50 tires, on the same wheels. Same tire brand, and same tread, just a bigger size. Nothing else on the Jeep was changed, and now the handling is better. I'm having a hard time explaining why that made such a difference, but the Jeep is much nicer to drive now. Everything about it feels better.

I don't think it's possible to make a bracket to mount up to the rear.