I have never experienced it. I bought my '09 in 2019 and it had the stock sized 255/75/17 BFG Mud Terrains, and I swapped them for 275/70/17 BFG KO2's. I have Bilstein 4600 series shocks but no lift kit. I've never experienced a death wobble (glad about that) and I usually hit 75-80 mph on my commute home.

 

IIRC, the Death Wobble seems to only occur in 2012 and later jeeps, however, your replay is VERY helpful. Every data point is helpful

 

The so called "death wobble" can affect ANY Jeep.....this includes...bone stock jeeps....lifted jeeps, jeeps with cheap lift kits, big tires....whatever. It is simply a factor of the way a Jeep is constructed over the solid axle. The key to avoiding the wobble is to #1 avoid cheap lift kits. #2 maintain all the chassis components on your Jeep [front and rear]. This means ALL bushings, tie rod ends, ball joints, unit bearings, shocks.... in some cases even tires can contribute to this malady.... Make certain ALL bolts are properly torqued to specifications and none of the bolt holes are wallowed out. With big tires and lift kits the anemic stock jeep steering box can be a factor. Proper wheel/axle alignment is absolutely necessary. In some cases the mechanics may say there is "little" wear or movement. I say bull@@@@. The stock [oem] Jeep front end components are garbage and any wear is too much!

 

Hit me three times last week between flagstaff and Holbrook at 65mph. Barely controlled it to the side of the road. I knew I had one of four ball joints with too much play. New ball joints installed and problem solved at least for me.

 

The so called "death wobble" can affect ANY Jeep.....this includes...bone stock jeeps....lifted jeeps, jeeps with cheap lift kits, big tires....whatever. It is simply a factor of the way a Jeep is constructed over the solid axle. The key to avoiding the wobble is to #1 avoid cheap lift kits. #2 maintain all the chassis components on your Jeep [front and rear]. This means ALL bushings, tie rod ends, ball joints, unit bearings, shocks.... in some cases even tires can contribute to this malady.... Make certain ALL bolts are properly torqued to specifications and none of the bolt holes are wallowed out. With big tires and lift kits the anemic stock jeep steering box can be a factor. Proper wheel/axle alignment is absolutely necessary. In some cases the mechanics may say there is "little" wear or movement. I say bull@@@@. The stock [oem] Jeep front end components are garbage and any wear is too much!

So it looks like ANY jeep can have a Death Wobble, and some random part, or tires can cause it. So much for my idea that it's large tires causing excessive wear. Or "funky" failed shocks.

 

This occurs in any vehicle with a solid front axle since the beginning of the automobile. It certainly isn't limited to 2012+ Jeeps. The solution is to maintain your rig correctly or install IFS.

 

Correct. Older pickups have been known to do it. ANY Wrangler can have this problem.

And FWIW ....... the pretense that replacing the steering stabilizer will fix the problem is nonsense and totally incorrect. I have heard that way too many times.

 

There are a couple of great YouTube videos by suspension specialists (I think one is a suspension engineer) on SFA vehicles and DW. It’s never one specific component like a (steering stabilizer) that causes true DW: where you have to pull to the side of the road and bring the vehicle to a stop to regain control and stop the vibration. Most times it seems to happen as a result of a combination of various worn and/or loose front end parts.

 

rockred & blastec - DW does not affect all Wranglers nor does it affect all automobiles. The YJ Wranglers are all but immune because they have the leaf springs. DW only affects vehicles with solid front axles and COIL SPRINGS. Because coil springs offer no lateral stability for a solid front axle, a Panhard Rod is necessary (called a track bar on the Jeeps). This keeps the front axle in place (a function done by the leaf springs in older vehicles). As the bearing of the track bar wear or if the bolts are not properly torqued, the allow the front axle to move sideways a small amount and when it moves back and sets up an oscillation, that is called DW. It can occur at any speed and the reason it is called Death Wobble since in order to stop it you must bring the vehicle to a near or complete stop to end it. It can occur at any speed, one of the classic views on YT is a Jeep hitting a board on a city street (definitely not at 65 MPH) and you can see (and hear) the resultant DW.

If your vibration is speed sensitive and consistent in about a 10 MPH band (say 55 to 65 MPH) that is referred to as wobble (also called shimmy) and is almost 100% related to one or more tires out of balance. A tire with bad run out (out of round) can also set up the vibration.

Look up the post by Planman on what is and is not DW and how to diagnose and correct it. There is a version posted for the TJ and another for the JK.

 

rockred & blastec - DW does not affect all Wranglers nor does it affect all automobiles. The YJ Wranglers are all but immune because they have the leaf springs. DW only affects vehicles with solid front axles and COIL SPRINGS. Because coil springs offer no lateral stability for a solid front axle, a Panhard Rod is necessary (called a track bar on the Jeeps). This keeps the front axle in place (a function done by the leaf springs in older vehicles). As the bearing of the track bar wear or if the bolts are not properly torqued, the allow the front axle to move sideways a small amount and when it moves back and sets up an oscillation, that is called DW. It can occur at any speed and the reason it is called Death Wobble since in order to stop it you must bring the vehicle to a near or complete stop to end it. It can occur at any speed, one of the classic views on YT is a Jeep hitting a board on a city street (definitely not at 65 MPH) and you can see (and hear) the resultant DW.

If your vibration is speed sensitive and consistent in about a 10 MPH band (say 55 to 65 MPH) that is referred to as wobble (also called shimmy) and is almost 100% related to one or more tires out of balance. A tire with bad run out (out of round) can also set up the vibration.

Look up the post by Planman on what is and is not DW and how to diagnose and correct it. There is a version posted for the TJ and another for the JK.

I get your point and I think you are spot on. The only part I have issue with is that YJ has been reported with DW. I suspect you just don't hear about it a lot though, simply because there aren't nearly as many on the road anymore.

But yeah... lateral support (or lack of) in the axle itself or in the linkage is the biggie.... and that can come from anywhere of a couple dozen different places on the front end and may indeed be the combination of several different things. If you are REAL LUCKY the problem is large enough to see and notice. If not then you can spend a fortune with trial/error parts replacement until some day you get it right.

My Rubicon doesn't do well without a stabilizer... even from day one right out of the frigging factory.... no stabilizer = DW. Yet other jeeps don't seem to have any issue at all.

 

YJ may be a victim of hype confusing simple wheel balance shimmy as DW, some of the TJ cases are that as well. From the discussion thread by Planman, the vast majority of TJ DW is caused by the track bar issues. Which is why he highly recommends the dry steering test as a diagnostic tool. While I have never had a case of DW personally, as my TJ is now 20 years old, I have a full set of steering linkage, control arms and the F&R track bars waiting to be installed.

The steering stabilizer does not eliminate DW, it simply masks it until it is worn out. The dry steering test will show which joint is not torqued to spec.

 

My goodness.... I should be more precise for those of you out there who are perfectionists. Not saying anything is wrong with being a perfectionist. Or obsessive compulsive for that matter... Yes, you are quite correct. When I said any jeep, I was referring to Jeeps made with coil springs the last twenty years or so rather than those with leaf springs manufactured decades ago....Not only that , remember,.... this IS a JK forum!!!!.
With respect to Mr. Sanders.... I respectfully disagree.... Something has to be loose or worn somewhere....You should be able to remove your steering stabilizer without having any wobble. The OEM suspension parts are garbage so if you are using OEM parts.... give them up and enjoy the smooth ride of a well maintained jeep. Please go back and check everything front and rear, as well as all bushings, tie rod ends, tires, wheels, unit bearings, and steering box!

 

I have heard people claim their YJ had death wobble but i dont believe it. I have never had a leaf sprung jeep have death wobble even with worn out ball joints, tre's and no steering stabilizer. I have only experienced death wobble on coil spring solid axle jeeps and they dont even have modded suspension to do it. I fixed it on a low mileage bone stock WJ once just by replacing the steering stabilizer.

 

2006 TJ.
Had a really bad death wobble at 35 mph.
Replaced track bar. (didn't help)
Replaced all steering tie rods that came in a kit with new tie rod ends and steering stabilizer. (could get up to 45 mph with no wobble)
Repalaced lower right ball joint that was bad. ( still no death wobble)
I think it's fixed but I do have a bent rear axle which gives the tire a slight wobble. Parts just showed up the other day.

 

"Death wobble" seems to be the Bigfoot of the Jeep world: probably exists, but most people never see it. I'm not an "automotive" engineer but I'm sure the same laws of physics apply and what people are seeing is probably some kind of harmonic oscillation in their steering linkages, caused by modifications that upset the equilibrium between the frame and the contact patch. If I saw this often I would look at any mods to see if my geometry was calculated right. A one-off occurrence I'd write off to a pothole or bump creating that one-in-1000 condition that the original system wasn't designed for, or maybe a differential in air pressure with a front tire. Just not enough data to suggest it's an endemic problem with Wranglers, but I try to remember that this is a vehicle with a front end optimized for slower speeds over rapidly changing terrain that is often used on flat surfaces at higher speeds. So not ruling out that it's a "use out of envelope" issue either.

 

Speed specific wobble is rarely death wobble... And if true death wobble begins, you have to come down to a very slow speed to make it stop, often under 10MPH.

Speed specific wobble is almost always tire and wheel related. The intensity of the wobble can be exaggerated by worn parts in the steering and suspension. Speed specific wobble can initiate death wobble, but it's not common to occur that way, it's usually from hitting a bump or uneven pavement which causes an unloading on one side of the suspension.

Once the tires have been eliminated by having them road force balanced, make sure you have enough caster (self centering effect) usually above 4.5° and your speed sensitive wobble should be gone.

 

@Pressurized ....... You're wasting your time. There are some here who refuse to believe anything about this condition and will not admit or be educated that their tire/wheel imbalance is merely causing a (sometimes severe) SHIMMY. Their neighbor/brother/friend/coworker who has read about it (once, briefly) diagnosed the problem. Unlike anyone who has actually experienced it and knows what the difference is.

To quote a dear friend (and it surely applies to this topic) : "Those convinced against their will are of the same opinion still."

 

^ this was my experience with DW. Occurred a few times before I resolved it, but it wasn't speed related (thank goodness it never happened on the highway) and I had to basically come to a complete stop before it settled down.

 

DW is a physics phenomenon, resonant oscillation. It's going to happen when the stability of the steering geometry gets upset -- either by poor settings or loose parts, or both.

• Worn ball joints can cause instability when experiencing minor disruptions.
• Improper camber can cause the scrub radius from each side to fight back and forth.
• Loose/worn wheel bearings can cause wheels to rotate asymmetrically.
• Improper caster can cause centering forces to be unstable.
• Improper toe-in can decrease the inherent centering-force stability.
• Pretty much <anything> loose in the suspension geometry is suspect: U-bolts, bushings, shackles, yata yata.

WOW!!! that's a lot of independent factors, right? And when several get working together, the problem can be enormously complex to solve.
Oh and BTW I've seen DW videos of other suspension designs (IFS); because of all these factors, it's not unique to SFA vehicles. I would have to say it's more common on Jeeps due to the large wheel masses -- these tend to exaggerate the "equation" of balance/imbalance.

 

I've never experienced DW in my JK's, never, not a single one short headed ever incident. I bought them stock, modded them myself. never ever have i know what DW is in my Wranglers.
A few years ago i bought a modded 01 WJ with an RC long arm lift kit. That SOB gave me that experience and it took it me a few tries before i got rid of the DWs. I replaced both wheel hubs, both CV axels, front and rear trackbar. still had some bumpsteer but at least i could drive it on the FW without fearing my front end was going to explode after hitting any bump on the road.

2018-06-02_09-42-46 by RAM RSM, on Flickr

 

My apologies to any of the forum readers that thought eliminating the DW they are experiencing was the subject of this thread. I must have been mistaken. Foolish me! I have read tons on the web about (and appreciate the engineering take) the theoretical discussion of dynamic frequency vibration as the root cause of DW. And I had time to watch all the you tubes when I developed DW. It took 3 weeks to get into the dealer. That's all fine and good education. Yet I find it interesting, or amusing, that all the theoretical and educated musings written about DW here haven't actually solved DW. And the best maintenance and perfect parts selection doesn't always stop DW from showing up, either. But I did learn that some Wranglers do fine without a stabilizer. If replacing all those parts doesn't solve it for you, just live with it I guess, or!, hide it with a new stabilizer. If DW goes away, is there a difference between eliminated and solved? Is there a practical difference between Stopped and Fixed. I think not. The goal is to drive down the road straight, without DW. Lots of problems get solved in different manners. Just like agallock07 said (sorry to reference you), sometimes a new steering stabilizer might solve it. And as I said previously, unless you find a bad or loose bushing or TRE or other obvious worn parts or wear issues, a cheaper, quicker and easier step just might be replacing the stabilizer. Don't overlook it. It is probably more consumable than a unit bearing, a TRE, a steering box, or any other hard part involved. It will most likely wear out before any of these other parts anyway and will need to be replaced sooner or later, like replacing your windshield wipers in Phoenix before monsoon season. And while you are under there use your torque wrench to tighten everything correctly as a precaution.

 

I truly think we are talking about two different things here. True death wobble is caused by worn out, broken, cheap, misaligned, out of round, out of balance, bent or mismatched parts. No new/old or whatever steering stabilizer will "cure" or stop it...period...end of discussion.
If a new, used or whatever steering stabilizer stops your "DW" you do NOT have DW! What you do have is a harmonic vacillation caused by God knows what and a steering stabilizer may break the circuit causing the harmonic vacillation!
So there you have it! We have fixed and found a cure for both the death wobble AND the harmonic vacillation.
Lets all be happy now....OK?

 

There are so many issues at play here and not many people that understand them.

An optimally maintained Jeep or brand new Jeep without a steering stabilizer should not have DW but it is still possible. Going to a Jeep dealer under warranty is a handicapped way to solve the problem. Warranty claims and Oem parts are very limited with what can work.

Sometimes the diameter or thickness of material can set off DW. I bet a brand new Jeep that experiences DW without stabilizer could be fixed with Fusion4x4 2.5 ton steering but Jeep won't pay for that. They will slap on a cheap redesigned stabilizer. There can be a combo of acceptable tolerances that cause DW and an Aftermarket part of different construction would be a possible way to fix it. That is why sometimes an aftermarket track bar can fix DW even when nothing wrong can be found faulty with factory TB. The aftermarket one may have a different bend, thickness, or harder durometer bushing.

Most people don't know you can set wheels to toe out to stop DW. Unfortunately this causes other adverse effects like poor handling characteristics and accelerated tire wear.

I have also witness DW on a clapped lifted SJ (Old Grand Cherokee with leaf springs. )

I understand that many people have only dealt with DW on a newer Jeep under warranty. If this is you then you have a very limited experience and point of view on the whole DW picture/situation. Please understand you are not getting the whole story. Many independent shops are not much better. They have fixed DW a couple times with one of the more common solutions like a TB and don't know what else to do after that.

I prefer finding the optimal combo of parts with acceptable tolerances that don't cause DW and then evaluate is a stabilizer or hydraulic ram is desired/wanted. I could write a short book on what I have seen with DW but it still wouldn't be a guaranteed fix. I understand many people cant afford to get a Jeep DW free without using a stabilizer. That is fine as long as they know it may come back.

 

I understand that many people have only dealt with DW on a newer Jeep under warranty. If this is you then you have a very limited experience and point of view on the whole DW picture/situation. Please understand you are not getting the whole story. Many independent shops are not much better. They have fixed DW a couple times with one of the more common solutions like a TB and don't know what else to do after that.

Please don't assume I (or people like me) don't have experience. Not only am I a (retired) Engineer, but I have also handled ALL of my own automotive repair/modding since my teen years, and that includes complete rebuilding of tranny's and motors.

There is no "one-size-fits-all" answer to death wobble. It could be caused by one thing, or a whole slew of different things in combination. It could be caused by something as simple as a normal rubber bushing which has a NOT WORN but simply relaxed itself a bit... or a whole bunch of bushings which have relaxed themselves.

The heck with service shops..... Automotive Engineers and designers themselves have been aware of this issue on these axles for DECADES and STILL to this day don't have a "one-size-fits-all" answer... because there is none.... but short of removing any and all flexibility and elasticity in these axles (which you can't do and still have comfortable handling), the one thing that has PROVEN to work more often than not whether you are talking ford, jeep, Chrysler, gm..... is DAMPENING the movement.

Now you could blindly throw money at the problem and cross your fingers in hopes you find the solution before you run out of said money... OR... you can simply try a one hundred dollar Steering stabilizer. Maybe it is not clear in someone else's mind which is the smarter and more logical answer here... but it is in my mind.

 

Had I noticed you sitting in my passenger seat I would have mentioned it. Oh, wait, you weren't there! Since it doesn't fit your definition it must not be real? My steering wheel would have told you different. The cause and theory behind it all can be parsed as much as someone wants to, but the net effect is a steering wheel you can't hold on to and a vehicle you can't drive. And the reality is, for the record, a new steering stabilizer resolved it, whether you want to believe it or not. Why are so many unwilling to accept that? It seems as though when fact and opinion conflict, opinion wants to win. I don't understand that. (Actually I do because it is the way of today's world). As a cancer survivor, here is my analogy...it makes no difference what the (unidentifiable) cause was, or what the specific treatment (replace parts) was, the important result is being cancer free (no DW). For those that have been there, the understanding is simple.

 

@oldracer109 : Was your event this violent? A simple YES or NO will suffice.

 

Well StevieTex, not sure you are the arbiter of responses, but I will say it certainly felt like it to me in the driver seat, but no film crew to confirm. Maybe that Jeep could benefit from a stabilizer since all those high end parts under there still let it happen. Do you have the sequel film with the SS? A simple Yes or No will suffice.

 

Lets have a little fun here.... nobody mentioned how temperature can affect your bushings....Bob Sanders.... Canada...colder than heck....His bushings freeze out of shape so his SS smooths things out..Old Racer... Arizona...hotter than hell...his bushings warp out of shape so his SS smooths things out.
There you have it boys... everybody happy?

 

I solved it, before I ever drove it. I gave it extra caster, that makes the wheels return to center after a turn or lane change. 1/8 inch toe in, 1" camber, done by Les Schwab tire store. It has been 10 years and 25,000 miles since I repaired the crash damage on my 98 TJ. 275/75/R18 tires. 3" Roughrider lift, threw away their shocks and installed ranchos. I am glad I never experienced "Death wobble" where the entire vehicle shakes violently, and is very hard to control. IMO too large of tires, taking turns being in charge of tracking, is all I can think of, if all suspension components are tight and aligned.

 

I solved it, before I ever drove it.

 

I last week, I bought a set of used (and quite old) 37,12.50 R17 tires for my 2022 Wrangler Rubicon Diesel that I mounted on brand new wheels and used balancing beads. The goal was to check for fitment and clearance. Here was the end result:

OEM: tires and wheels, I could drive 90mph no issues or vibrations.

37s: Death wobble GALORE as soon as I hit a bump anywhere above 60mph.

I then bought a brand new set of 37x12.50 R17 Nitto Ridge Grapplers and mounted those on the new wheels and again used balancing beads.

No change to alignent or anything was done and I can drive 80mph no issues.

Just my 2¢.

 

Using a steering stabilizer to damp out Death Wobbles is like using a tourniquet to stop bleeding.

It stops the oscillations/bleeding but does not fix the source/heal the wound.

A steering stabilizer does not always damp DWs. But if it does, it can buy you enough time to drive your Jeep until you can find the source and fix it.

Death Wobbles are oscillations such that the vehicle cannot be steered. If your rig has some sort of vibration or oscillation that still allows you to steer, it’s not a Death Wobble. That does mean it can’t or won’t eventually turn into the Death Wobbles.

 

Using a steering stabilizer to damp out Death Wobbles is like using a tourniquet to stop bleeding.

So if it solves the DW it is not a fix?

 

Agreed... Once DW started I could do anything...