For My $$.. I'd go Willys. Looking on Jeep.com, there is a $7,300 difference..

 

anything more then moderate tends to damage 4x4 as well. Most people off road is more on the easy then moderate. Since moderate is not easy. Most these jeeps so little off road in reality to the miles they drive them. Say 20k a year what maybe 2%? 400 miles? a year, still that is a lot of trail 400 miles. The Rubicon Trail we are taking about the trail the jeep was named after. It is 19 miles about. Our jeep has ran that 9 times in 12 years. would be 20 laps to go 400 miles. Or 20 trail that long.

Unless you plan to run trails that need all locked, joining a off road club?. Or condition where front locked or at least a Lsd or lunch box say in mud. better to have all 4. deep snow. loose conditions. Our club we have many trails around here. Some are locked on 35s at the least. along with No crying when you dent it or worse far worse.....

The W still has a d30 front. I dont think they make that in a open d44.

4:1 is great for rock crawling. Way better control with a low craw ratio. especially with larger tires.
But in some conditions its to low the 2.7:1 case is better for wheel speed in low range. high angle sand dune climbing. In our rubi that is in 4x4 high first gear. if you need to toss sand. My friends with v8s do this best the v6 just dont spin 37s like a LS can on 40s....plus they sound great

 

Back story - Our intended off-road use would be CO and UT and such. I like sight seeing more than conquering obstacles. My wife is "not terribly brave" and gets nervous on shelf roads, doesn't like tires spinning. So I figured Rubicon so we could disco and lock the axles to allow us to walk up anything we come to that we'd want to do.

Trails I've done in the past with open diffs (often Toyota PU) include Engineer, Imogene, Black Bear. These days we'd like to do that level and harder (say Fins & Things, and the easy parts of Hell's Revenge) but without any drama.

I did the first 1/2 of Fins & Things in my 2015 Rubi with 2.5" lift and 33" tires and never needed the lockers. Makes me think a Willys with a rear locker would probably be all I'd ever need.

 

Aftr reading your posts I would say you are in the middle. FACT all off-road starts with a dirt road/trail and from it grows to the level of toleration...how tight your butt gets on any given trail. Most folks stop about the 7 level of trails. Go past that and 2 things come into play. 1) expensive mods PROPERLY ENGINEERED! 2) Driver capability and tolerance to leaning over 53 degrees (that is how far I go in my Jeep). Since my wife was squeamish on any trail that had dirt, and rarely if ever went with me. Better for me.

All that said you wife may make the call and if you like Jeeping alone or with a buddy then GO Rubicon, if not Stay with the Willys and safe some BIG BUCKS. How big are big buck? My TJ build was around $50k, NOT including the cost of the Jeep. I also owned a shop at that time and I got my mods cheaper, not much figure on Top Quality items were generally discounted not much more than 10%. My axles and wheels alone were over $25k. I never marked up the parts, I only charged for labor.

Only you can make the call!

 

To me, it sounds like you have done trails that would not have benefitted from the features of a Rubicon over the Willys. However, you are talking about what you did in the past. The natural evolution of your activity is to try more difficult trails. Also, if you plan on going to 35s or larger tires, the Rubicon instantly earns its keep.

 

...Also, if you plan on going to 35s or larger tires, the Rubicon instantly earns its keep.

What about a Rubicon makes it more advantageous over the Willys with larger tires? 4:1 Transfer case I assume?

 

No

 

Moderate- Willys easy.
But on the hard stuff the 4:1 is better. I have a heavily modified JK Sport with 4.56s, 35s, front and rear lockers, serious flexy suspension. But it's hard to replicate that slow, slow crawl over big ass obstacles both going up and coming down. It's a little harder to feather the gas on an (automatic) Pentacrap. The 4:1 rolls more smoothly and slowly. When you're crawling over shifty boulders that can make the difference between dropping between boulders and getting over them.
If I was wheeling still (vs driving fast in my 392 at the mall ) my next Jeep would be a Rubicon just for the 4:1.

( I've had manual discos on the JK for forever. Sure I like hitting a quickie dirt trail in the JLU and using the EDisco. But if I am running real trails I am going to air down. I am manually- disconnected by Tire #2 in the JK so that's not a huge deal to me. But some people REALLY hate doing that. Give me a rubber mallet to hit something with...all good by me.)

 

I have 2 friends that have both asked for my help in changing their 2.7:1 transfer cases to the Rubicon 4:1 transfer cases. We would have done the first one last weekend, but for shipping damage to one of them.

 

What vanhalo said.

 

trails will only get harder with the more experienced you become.

 

The Rubicon has a better rear axle (full float), a better front axle (locker), a better transfer case (4-1), and (ironically) better tires for daily driving. Also has 4.88 optional gearing.

I vote Rubicon.

 

I had the same question last Nov 2023, and I ended up buying the Willys (without the lockers). I can tell you something: in these 7 months, we have been making trails and exploring without any modification to the Jeep; it is pretty impressive how capable it is; we have been in the snow, in the mod, in the sand, and so far no complains;
I'm pretty happy with my boy

 

For 2024,Willys for the win in the OPs case.

 

A buddy of mine got a 2024 Willys a couple months ago; he says it came standard with an open D44 in front. He just added a locker.

The Hill Descent feature, now available across both JL and JT lineups, serves as a poor-man's crawl control.

 

The Willys is the best "value" JL, if such a thing exists considering their astronomical prices. I'd struggle to justify a Rubicon over a Willys. A set of manual disconnects is about $200 and the front locker can always be added aftermarket if you really want. With that, I really don't believe that a Rubicon is worth the premium.

 

Yeah. We used to console ourselves that the Rubicon sticker alone was worth the extra dough.

Now even the Willys sticker is much cooler IMO...

 

after 4 rubicons I thought about getting a 24 willys XR but when it actually came down to writing the check I couldn't do it. I use all the features of the Rubicon ie discos, front locker and more importantly the 4.1 TC. I don't keep vehicles long enough to make swapping lockers and transfer cases worth while as no way on a trade or sale will you get that money back.

 

for $7500, I'd take the 4:1 Tcase, full float rear axle and available 4:88, I think the Rubi gets a better brake booster too

 

The full-float is only available on the 4-doors, though. My only gripe is that either you get 4.88s and the crappier axles with the aluminum knuckles and FAD, or the XR axles with 4.56s and a whole host of upgrades.

 

I never saw the value in buying a model not equipped with the options I want, then buying parts and installing them. My time/labor isn't $200/hr, but it is worth something.

 

That is a valid point, Roanie.

And I speak from experience here, as my relatively inexpensive Willys Sport, after all my upgrades and mods, is now into (if not beyond) Rubicon territory, cost-wise.

BUT, I now have the Jeep exactly as I want it, with the options and mods that I wanted, and just as importantly, without the options that I did not want. I would have ideally liked some of the features that come stock on a Rubicon that did not come on my Willys Sport, but there are a whole bunch of other options on the Rubicon that I did NOT want, most particularly all the electronic gizmos and hoo-hah that, in my eyes, are just more needless complexity waiting to fail or to drain the battery. And actually, most of my mods have been things that would not have come on a Rubicon anyway. So I have absolutely no regrets about having bought "down market" and then adding to it.

 

Keon, I hear you about the annoying nagging 'features' of newer vehicles.

Mine had two that I disabled in short order, so annoying did I find them. The first one was the engine start-stop system, and the second was the HIGHLY annoying "HONK HONK HONK" when you get out and then close a door while the engine is running. I put in a horn bypass switch just to disable that when I am warming up my Jeep in the winter while scraping the windows, or when I am warming it up while loading up stuff and going in and out of it.

At least I have not yet had it nag me about the unconnected passenger seat belt while I am carrying some heavier stuff on the passenger seat; if my Jeep does have that "feature", it would appear that it requires more than 25 lbs on the passenger seat to set it off. And really, now that I have my cargo area fixed up just the way I want it, I mostly stick stuff back there anyway, rather than on the passenger seat.

 

Pricing out both just now, they way I would want them:
Willys 4 door, hard top, 2.0T, auto, with heated seats $50,675.
Rubicon 4 door, hard top, 2.0T, auto, with heated seats $54,475.

I'd go with the Rubicon.

 

The availability of the Willys with 2 D44s and a rear locker is really tempting. I've got a JKU now and only a factory rear LSD. I've hesitated on doing lockers because I would only do a front if I first upgraded to a D44 and that is a good deal of extra money. For me, I would want to tow a trailer so the Rubicon Unlimited with its 5000 pound capacity is my only choice. Cost is keeping me away at the moment but I know these will drop as they become used, so I'll keep my eyes on the used ones as they come on the market. I wish the front sway disconnect was a separate option as those who I know with them find that they fail in their first year if they offroad at all. A nice set of Metal Cloak quick disconnects goes for well under $100 and I have them on my JKU and love them. I have modified them to be shorter, making proper sway bar placement...nearly horizontal on flat ground.

 

I'm in the same boat, I'm putting off a regear on my JK. I too would like a D44 front axle and just cant stomach what they go for. If I'm going to put another $8k to $12k of cash into my JK, maybe it's time to get another vehicle.

 

I suspect resale value is always better on stock than modified vehicles. A stock Rubicon is going to be worth more used than a Sport that has built to match a Rubicon.

 

I do agree on that point.
I will say my front S &G 'ed D30 hasn't had a single issue and it was wheeled for years. A lot of people say that's a horrible idea/not worth it but if you do it at the time of re-gear and/or lockers its not that's expensive. And I've seen plenty of bent D44s- its not bulletproof either.

 

100% yes. I had a 2016 Willys and now a 2024 Rubicon. Get the Rubicon...if anything, for resale value.

 

For me, it was worth getting the rubicon.
Didn't want to purchase and install front lockers and sway bar disconnect. The electronic one is soooo much more convenient, than getting out and manually doing it, and having to be on flat level ground.
That way I can focus/spend more on the suspension and steering.

 

It probably ultimately depends your budget. Take your time on your decision and make sure you get what you want. I made the mistake a few years back and settled for a car with lower price tag and kinda regretted it the whole time.
With that said I went with the rubicon and every time I see this topic discussed anywhere I am very happy with my decision.
At least they both come with nice LED lights.

 

Wanna know what I chose? Here's my answer to the question. Posted here for future readers who may have an interest.

We were this close to getting the Willys but ended up ordering a Rubicon. We can afford either so that was not a constraint. Here are the factors (not in any order) that swayed us in that direction.

Sway Disconnect - I love disconnecting to improve the ride as much as to gain articulation. Yes, you can add manual disconnects to a Willys but I put value on having that button in the cab.

Front Camera - Having wheeled a bit in Moab, I really love the idea of being able to see the trail even when all you see out the windshield is sky. There are aftermarket solutions to this as well, but they are not as well integrated as the factory system.

HD Radio - I'm old school. I listen to FM and really enjoyed the sound of HD radios I had in prior vehicles.

Aesthetics - My wife liked the Rubi wheels more than the Willys. She also liked the front grill more. Since this is more her Jeep than mine, these things matter. Happy wife, happy life.

Tires - AT vs MT. I've had both and preferred the milder tread for the majority of the driving we do.

Front Locker & 4:1 Low Range - For our intended off-road usage these are overkill. Yet, not. My desire to do tough trails is greater than my wife's. The tougher it feels the more unsettled she becomes. Having dual lockers and the control of lower low range should help to reduce the drama (spinning, bouncing) on the tougher trails. This keeps her happier and me on the trail.

 

Trying to force logic on an emotional decision is ... illogical. You made the right choice, IMO. You went with your emotions.