[Capt. Skinny Peddle]

We've got a 2017 jku sport. I'm trying to decide between normal "mid arm" adjustable control arms and a long arm conversion. I'm perfectly capable of the welding and fab work required for a long arm, but is it worth it? How much useable wheel travel is gained with long arms? How much is possible with mid arms?

We've currently got a mild lift, 2.5" with drop brackets and fox 2.0 shocks. After a recent Colorado/Utah overlanding and rock crawling trip, my wife decided she wants a more capable build. It will need to be reliable, comfortable, and capable of long distance trips. Are there any advantages with one or the other in this regard?

 

[Doc222]

they dont.
Drop brackets you lost 3" of clearance....
long arms tend to get hung up faster and turtled. unless you go say 37+/40s 1 tons and 4 link triangulated long arms.

flex is all about the shocks length.

You have lockers? That will do more for any 4x4 then lift tires and shocks off road period. then what is your crawl ratio? have a 4:1 low range? sport have none of those.

In our club in AZ to run any of the 3+/4-4+ and up trails lockers are needed or you wont be in the run. No one wants to drag you all day or risk even more damage.

My jkr is on 4.25/4.75 lift 11" shocks. has ran Fordyce, rubicon 9 times Dusy 8 times. Moab, Sand hollow and home is AZ. we do mostly AZ4 rated trails. never once i have said , man i need a long arms......

Usable travel with springs that seat at full droop is key. Longer springs Not how tall is key here. not all spring have the same free length.

Jks rear have a lot of angle at the shocks, depending on set most can move that lower up from 1/1.5" UP andten cut off that hanging fruit. gains 1"+ of droop and more ground clearance at the shock/control arm mounts rear lower.

Unless you go with say Six pack shock. to have say 11-12+ flex need more lift to clear those long shocks and have that 50-60% of shock at rest.

 

[Capt. Skinny Peddle]

they dont.
Drop brackets you lost 3" of clearance....
long arms tend to get hung up faster and turtled. unless you go say 37+/40s 1 tons and 4 link triangulated long arms.

flex is all about the shocks length.

You have lockers? That will do more for any 4x4 then lift tires and shocks off road period. then what is your crawl ratio? have a 4:1 low range? sport have none of those.

In our club in AZ to run any of the 3+/4-4+ and up trails lockers are needed or you wont be in the run. No one wants to drag you all day or risk even more damage.

My jkr is on 4.25/4.75 lift 11" shocks. has ran Fordyce, rubicon 9 times Dusy 8 times. Moab, Sand hollow and home is AZ. we do mostly AZ4 rated trails. never once i have said , man i need a long arms......

Usable travel with springs that seat at full droop is key. Longer springs Not how tall is key here. not all spring have the same free length.

Jks rear have a lot of angle at the shocks, depending on set most can move that lower up from 1/1.5" UP andten cut off that hanging fruit. gains 1"+ of droop and more ground clearance at the shock/control arm mounts rear lower.

Unless you go with say Six pack shock. to have say 11-12+ flex need more lift to clear those long shocks and have that 50-60% of shock at rest.

Thanks for your response.

Funny you should mention that. I've already got a set of 1 ton axles, 5 brand new 37" Patagonias on wheels, and a hydro assist cylinder, that are now slated for the JK. (They were originally for my XJ, but wifey wants them on the jk now).

Lockers are definitely going to be part of the build, but I haven't got them yet. LoL, I'm still trying to recover financially from the last vacation.

I hadn't considered the long arms causing "turtle" issues, but it makes sense now that you say it. Plus, while I'm capable of doing the long arm conversion, I really just don't want to if it's not necessary. Too lazy I guess.

As for lift height, it's obviously going to need more lift, I haven't settled on a height yet, but I'm thinking probably 4" with highline fenders if I can get away with it.

As for the tcase rato, it's the stock tcase for now. If I find a good deal on a factory 4:1 box, it might be an option. Otherwise, I'll be staying stock for now and dream about an atlas2 in the future. I will put 4.88 or 5.13 gears in the axles though.

As for shocks, I'm still trying to decide. I may go with coilovers though.

 

[Rob50lx]

@Doc222 summed it up nicely. I'm still on Metalcloak regular length arms and can use all the travel of my 15" 6Pak shocks. I have enough travel to cause driveshaft issues both front and rear. The front shaft is denting the exhaust and the rear 1350 short 2-door length driveshaft binds before I can reach full droop of the shocks. With the driveshafts unbolted at one end I can remove my Metalcloak springs without disconnecting any suspension component. Long arms will be smoother at higher speeds but they will not provide additional travel. The track bars are the biggest issue once you have more travel than 11"-12" because they start to pull the axle to the side and cause clearance issues. The rear driveshaft will contact the gas tank in many situations and requires some mods or offsetting the rear axle the more articulation the rear axle has.

I made my own raised rear brackets to drastically improve ground clearance while improving control arm angles similar to what the Metalcloak rear drop brackets. If you want more details you can click on my build link in my signature.

 

[Capt. Skinny Peddle]

@Doc222 summed it up nicely. I'm still on Metalcloak regular length arms and can use all the travel of my 15" 6Pak shocks. I have enough travel to cause driveshaft issues both front and rear. The front shaft is denting the exhaust and the rear 1350 short 2-door length driveshaft binds before I can reach full droop of the shocks. With the driveshafts unbolted at one end I can remove my Metalcloak springs without disconnecting any suspension component. Long arms will be smoother at higher speeds but they will not provide additional travel. The track bars are the biggest issue once you have more travel than 11"-12" because they start to pull the axle to the side and cause clearance issues. The rear driveshaft will contact the gas tank in many situations and requires some mods or offsetting the rear axle the more articulation the rear axle has.

I made my own raised rear brackets to drastically improve ground clearance while improving control arm angles similar to what the Metalcloak rear drop brackets. If you want more details you can click on my build link in my signature.

View attachment 4593767

I'm glad to hear another voice supporting the regular length arms. That makes me more comfortable leaning that way. I'm looking at options for adjustments arms and joints. I haven't really done any research yet. Are you still happy with the metalcloak stuff? Is it one of those things where any adjustable arm is as good as the next, or are there ones to avoid?
Thanks

 

[Old Dogger]

I'm glad to hear another voice supporting the regular length arms. That makes me more comfortable leaning that way. I'm looking at options for adjustments arms and joints. I haven't really done any research yet. Are you still happy with the metalcloak stuff? Is it one of those things where any adjustable arm is as good as the next, or are there ones to avoid?
Thanks

Welcome to the Forum!

 

[Keon]

I'm glad to hear another voice supporting the regular length arms. That makes me more comfortable leaning that way.

Yeah long arms are more of a TJ thing. Also, Metalcloak has a great reputation on here. Not all arms are created equally, you want something that will last, can be maintained (replacement ends are available) and, if this is a street driven rig, you should also consider noise. Some joint types make a lot more noise than others.

 

[Capt. Skinny Peddle]

Yeah long arms are more of a TJ thing. Also, Metalcloak has a great reputation on here. Not all arms are created equally, you want something that will last, can be maintained (replacement ends are available) and, if this is a street driven rig, you should also consider noise. Some joint types make a lot more noise than others.

Yes, it's definitely a street driven rig. We live in Ohio, but like to go to Moab, and Colorado. Which ones are quiet?

 

[Keon]

Yes, it's definitely a street driven rig. We live in Ohio, but like to go to Moab, and Colorado. Which ones are quiet?

IDK. Your best bet to finding that answer is to search this forum to see what people have to say about their aftermarket arms. I believe heim joints can be noisy and less isolated, though.

 

[Rob50lx]

I'm very picky about noise and rattles and Metalcloak arms are my favorite for the great amount of flex and still being quiet. If you like the gold on the MC arms than you should clear coat them otherwise the zinc coating will fade in harsh winter conditions. If you don't like the gold just paint over them. I don't mind the gold and it has held up very well on the front range of Colorado but others may have a different experience. Powder coating isn't something I like on high wear items and prefer paint for simple touch-ups.

 

[Capt. Skinny Peddle]

I'm very picky about noise and rattles and Metalcloak arms are my favorite for the great amount of flex and still being quiet. If you like the gold on the MC arms than you should clear coat them otherwise the zinc coating will fade in harsh winter conditions. If you don't like the gold just paint over them. I don't mind the gold and it has held up very well on the front range of Colorado but others may have a different experience. Powder coating isn't something I like on high wear items and prefer paint for simple touch-ups.

That makes sense, ODOT likes to use tons of salt on the roads in the winter. It destroys everything. Paint would probably be easier to keep up with.

I've heard of heims being noisy but very strong. I'll look into other joint options.

 

[rsmwrangler]

JK arms have a fairly decent length from the factory at least when you compare them with the stock arms from any other previous model Jeep like TJ's, XJ's, ZJs etc and when paired with most shocks between 10-12" travel they won't have any issues handling flex with 2.5-3.5" lift. Heck the JK arms are almost as long as the long arm setup for a TJ so at least when you pick from the pool of JK aftermarket arms that use any style flex bushing been adjustable you're extending your wheelbase a little bit as well which has its own driving/geometry correction benefits as well. I have all 8 arms with 3" lift and don't have any issues with flex, i could even run longer shocks than what i have in the back now, but really have no need for now, and in the front i'm maxed out because if i ran longer shocks i'll hit my DS against the exhaust crossover, honestly i'm surprise how it doesn't hit currently, my front shocks have 11.6" travel in the front, 10" in the back. The fronts are 7" longer than stock Lol.

Everybody i've asked who did long arms did so so as a setup evolution when they did 1 ton axels with 40's, they all claim longer arms gave then a more stable ride on or offroad and improved the factory geometry after lift. Most seem to run 4.5-5" lift. On my last trip to KOH last year i had the opportunity to look at different long arm kits, I liked Clayton because of it's simplicity (Their radius arms in the front) it tucks away fairly nice. I liked the EVO long arm kit setup, tucks up really nicely, especially in the rear. TNT custom have a similar approach to Clayton in the front with Radius arms but i didn't like the uppers have poly bushings. Synergy long arm kit tucks up nicely as well. I also liked Rock Krawler because they race Ultra 4 and i think they put that experience in their kits, their JK setup seem to be a 4 link front with 3 link the in back. No experience installing or running any of these kits myself though, but again once my Jeep is paid off (3 years) i'll start out a different build and no doubts in my mind my goal wil be towards long arms if i'll be running 40's. i'll stay on the short arms if i move to 37's.

 

[Doc222]

my low dollar build i do all the welding and work on it. 11" travel. 2 door as well "Short Bus"

 

[Capt. Skinny Peddle]

my low dollar build i do all the welding and work on it. 11" travel. 2 door as well "Short Bus"

That seems pretty reasonable. Is it maxed out in any of those pics?

 

[rsmwrangler]

You shouldn't have any issues on aftermarket short arms. These are the Clayton Overland+ (lowers only front and rear with stock uppers)
This was back with OME L's
20211002_141701 by RAM RSM, on Flickr

20211120_123420 by RAM RSM, on Flickr

Or with Fox 2.0 4.5" shocks with all 8 arms Clayton Overland+, better articulation
20220813_115647 by RAM RSM, on Flickr

20220813_115634 by RAM RSM, on Flickr

Or
Fox 2.0 4.5" shocks with reservoirs which are actually 1" longer than the version without the res, all 8 Clayton Overland+ arms. Easier to articulate compared to having stock uppers, (I have pics that show how the stockers bulge when the suspension flexes, any rubber bushing will do the sme, this is why i don't lose my time with aftermarket arms witgh rubber bushings)

2023-08-12_05-43-33 by RAM RSM, on Flickr

 

[Capt. Skinny Peddle]

You shouldn't have any issues on aftermarket short arms. This are the Clayton Overland+ (lowers only front and rear with stuck uppers)
This was back with OME L's
20211002_141701 by RAM RSM, on Flickr

20211120_123420 by RAM RSM, on Flickr

Or Fox 2.0 4.5" shocks with all 8 arms Claytons
20220813_115647 by RAM RSM, on Flickr

20220813_115634 by RAM RSM, on Flickr

Or
Fox 2.0 4.5" shocks with reservoirs which are actually 1" longer than the version without the res, all 8 arms. Easier to articulate compared to having stock uppers, (I have pics that show how the stockers bulge when the suspension flexes, any rubber bushing will do the sme, this is why i don't lose my time with aftermarket arms witgh rubber bushings)

2023-08-12_05-43-33 by RAM RSM, on Flickr

Thanks for the comparison. I think I'm confused though. I looked at the Clayton overland+ arms and they are listed as having "dual durometer" which would lead me to believe it is a rubber bushing type joint, is it not?
I was originally trying to decide between the Barnes 3 link long arm or the Artec aluminum mid arm, both use isolated spherical bearing style joints. But those Clayton arms are less than half the cost, so that's definitely appealing.

 

[rsmwrangler]

Thanks for the comparison. I think I'm confused though. I looked at the Clayton overland+ arms and they are listed as having "dual durometer" which would lead me to believe it is a rubber bushing type joint, is it not?
I was originally trying to decide between the Barnes 3 link long arm or the Artec aluminum mid arm, both use isolated spherical bearing style joints. But those Clayton arms are less than half the cost, so that's definitely appealing.

It's a fully sealed flex type joint, similar to Synergy DDB's. 26* of movement combined per bushing and because you have the bushings at each end that's 50* overall per arm. + their arms have a lifetime warranty.

The GIIRO Bushing | Clayton Offroad

Introducing GIIRO, with it structured anatomy and superior isolator technology, GIIRO has bridged the void between rubber and flex joints for the ultimate touring bushing.

www.claytonoffroad.com

these are the ones i have

Jeep Wrangler OVERLAND+ Control Arm Kit 2007-2018, JK

If you want the best control arms on the market with ZERO maintenance, look no further. OVERLAND PLUS JK Short Control Arms (8 Adjustable Arms) Over new Overland Plus control arms offer Giiro joints at both ends of your lower control arms. The Giiro Joint is a dual durometer, self centering...

www.claytonoffroad.com

But they also feature another version with one Giiro in one end with a JJ on the other one, JJ is supposed to be 40* of misalignment, so you you end with 65* per arm

Jeep Wrangler OVERLAND+ Control Arm Kit 2007-2018, JK

If you want the best control arms on the market with ZERO maintenance, look no further. OVERLAND PLUS JK Short Control Arms (8 Adjustable Arms) Over new Overland Plus control arms offer Giiro joints at both ends of your lower control arms. The Giiro Joint is a dual durometer, self centering...

www.claytonoffroad.com

And they have a long arm kits as well for JK
One with radius arm in the front, or another one with 3 link front.

| Clayton Offroad

www.claytonoffroad.com

 

[Capt. Skinny Peddle]

It's a fully sealed flex type joint, similar to Synergy DDB's. 26* of movement combined per bushing and because you have the bushings at each end that's 50* overall per arm. + their arms have a lifetime warranty.

The GIIRO Bushing | Clayton Offroad

Introducing GIIRO, with it structured anatomy and superior isolator technology, GIIRO has bridged the void between rubber and flex joints for the ultimate touring bushing.

www.claytonoffroad.com

these are the ones i have

Jeep Wrangler OVERLAND+ Control Arm Kit 2007-2018, JK

If you want the best control arms on the market with ZERO maintenance, look no further. OVERLAND PLUS JK Short Control Arms (8 Adjustable Arms) Over new Overland Plus control arms offer Giiro joints at both ends of your lower control arms. The Giiro Joint is a dual durometer, self centering...

www.claytonoffroad.com

But they also feature another version with one Giiro in one end with a JJ on the other one, JJ is supposed to be 40* of misalignment, so you you end with 65* per arm

Jeep Wrangler OVERLAND+ Control Arm Kit 2007-2018, JK

If you want the best control arms on the market with ZERO maintenance, look no further. OVERLAND PLUS JK Short Control Arms (8 Adjustable Arms) Over new Overland Plus control arms offer Giiro joints at both ends of your lower control arms. The Giiro Joint is a dual durometer, self centering...

www.claytonoffroad.com

And they have a long arm kits as well for JK
One with radius arm in the front, or another one with 3 link front.

| Clayton Offroad

www.claytonoffroad.com

Cool, thanks for the clarification.

 

[TerryC6]

The choice between long arm and mid arm all comes down to how it is intended to be used. Long arm if the goal is to go fast open desert, mid arm for everything else. Because the rig will be used on the road as well I second the use of MetalCloak control arms if not just getting the whole Gamechanger lift with 6Paks if you goal is articulation.

 

[SoK66]

I did a long arm conversion (Teraflex) ten years ago on my '09 JKUR, along with their then Fox reservoir shocks. Overall it's been superb, with the exception of that generation of their setup used the old Flexjoints which, well, the uppers are not great. Ride quality & stability clearly show improvements. However, even with 37's they do smack ledges, etc., and I'd say were I to do it again I wouldn't. It's not worth the cost vs benefit until you get to 40s and a much longer shock travel than I have. Until you get to coilovers and some serious tire size a good set of drop brackets will get you nearly the benefit of a long arm front setup. My plan will be to convert to Tera's Alpine arms at some point. They appear to be phasing out their old Flexjoints.