Typically, the shocks have the largest effect on ride quality. The factory springs are pretty soft... Almost everyone is firmer. OME softs would be an option, but not until you tried something else for shocks.

Probably the Rancho RS9000XL, which are adjustable, would allow you to dial in the ride quality that you want. They are pretty soft when turned down low...

 

Some of it depends on how you use your Wrangler. Off, or on highway, or both. If ride quality is your primary goal, then drop down your wheel size from 18 to 17's. This will give you more rubber on the ground. Next I suggest that you look into tires. Michelin Defender LTX M/S. on highway tires, will give you one of the best Rides, plus they are very quiet. But for both on and off highway, either the BFG KO'2, or the Falken Wildpeak AT3's C rated. Then experiment with tire pressure. As for ride quality, the OEM Sahara shocks are designed for one of the best rides.

 

EVO springs are pretty soft.

 

Is it a two door or a four door, are you on 18" wheels, what size tires? Stock for the most part or aftermarket heavy bumpers etc?

 

If you have short front control arms (control arms using factory mount locations) and they are not parallel the ground, they will give a harsh ride. As the suspension compresses, the axle has to move forward against the road imperfections which gives a bit of a sharp bump against the chassis.

I know 2.5 inches isn't much of a lift and maybe not enough for this to be a problem, but it's still a possibility.

 

I would consider buying some geometry correction brackets to "fix" control arm angles. I'd also look at new shocks. A twin tube/hydraulic shock will ride softer than a monotube shock but you may have to do a lot of research to find your Goldilocks shock depending on your preferences. For example, Metalcloak Rocksport twin tube shocks are much softer/smoother than Fox monotubes on my 2 dr JK, but they also allow far more weight transfer during acceleration, braking, and cornering.

 

Thanks for all the replies. Some updates:
It's a 2-door, with standard (short) control arms. I switched recently to Fox non-reservoir shocks, and it helped slightly (over factory). I run a lot of washboard when I'm off-road, which it handles pretty well. It's the street and pavement roughness that seems to be coming into the cab more than I'd like.
The big factor is that I'm running Hercules Terra Trac T/G 35" tires with an 8-ply rating -- I love 'em, so I run them soft (28psi) and that's probably the best I'll get.
Given all that, all that's left to fiddle with is the springs, and it sounds like I'm already on the softest ones available (factory).

 

The tires aren't helping the ride. You can probably go lower on the pressure since they're 35", and you only have a 2 door (lighter than 4 door).

After tires, shocks will make more of a different than springs.

Fox are still usually fairly firm shocks

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In a way, your post amuses me. I was in the opposite camp, although admittedly any comparison isn't even Apples to Oranges. I've been through 3 different lift kits on my 2015 JKU-R Hard Rock.

The first was an AEV 2.5" SC. Loved it. Better than stock handling. It did squat some in the rear when loaded up with the camping gear, but not beyond level. I did have some rubbing at full articulation, but that was rare too. Then we got a small cargo-trailer with an RTT (Roof-Top-Tent). A trip through Colorado showed me that my rig on 35" tires (4.10 axles) needed better brakes. Otherwise, everything else was grand. EXCEPT..... the wife got tired of "TENTS", and she did not like the ladder in the dark when she needed to go out to the rest room. Especially in the rain. As I was retiring, and selling back my sick-time and unused vacation, I had a fist full of cash, over 1000 hours at my hourly rate. So we bought a new off-road rated trailer that could go anywhere.

I was immediately disappointed with the AEV 2.5" lift. It wasn't up to the task of the new trailer. I certainly loved the handling of the AEV products, better than the stock JKU-R on the highways are quite acceptable off-road too. So I traded a couple of E-mails with AEV, and soon I was purchasing the 3.5" SC lift kit. I got that installed and was immediately not happy. It was not only a LIFT kit, it was also a LEVELING kit. When I put the trailer on it the rear end sag was not acceptable. After more discussion I added a 1" spacer to the rear springs. But that wasn't quite enough, the trailer has a lot of tongue weight. The next suggestion was to add Air-Lift air bags. Simple enough, and cheap. So I tried it. It worked, but it felt like a band-aid solution to me. Without the air bags inflated I always thought the back end was a little soft. But the handling was superb. And I was able to sell the used AEV 2.5" lift for 50% of what I paid for it, so it wasn't a total loss. At the big annual Southern New Mexico 4X4 event, testing it on the RTI it did an 834. Not too bad.

At Overland Expo Flagstaff in 2021 I had the opportunity to meet the AEV folks in person. They went over my rig. What they did not ask previously and I did not mention or consider was the cargo in the rear of the JEEP. And it was significant. The AEV recommendation was to change to the 4.5" H/C lift, the H/C is the high-capacity "Overland" springs. Fortunately, all the components EXCEPT SPRINGS are the same in the 3.5" and 4'5" kits. So I only needed to buy the springs and bump-stops. It was still a leveling kit, so I still left the 1" spacers in when I swapped out the springs and bump-stops. But this was exactly where I needed to be. When fully loaded for an extended expedition, the rear end was still about 1/4-inch higher than the front. PERFECT! The rear was much stiffer. At first I thought too stiff. And I was able to sell the 3.5" springs and bump-stops for $200, so again it wasn't a total loss.

At the 2022 Southern New Mexico 4X4 event I discussed the changes I had made with several of the folks. The question was this. Coming from a 3.5" lift that ramped an 834, would going to a 4.5" lift with high-capacity springs ramp better or worse? For a few days the discussion was interesting, with best guesses on either side, better or worse. Finally on the last day there was a small crowd watching while we did the ramp. And it did an 828. Just slightly worse, almost not worth mentioning.

I wish you the best of luck on your situation.

 

In a way, your post amuses me. I was in the opposite camp, although admittedly any comparison isn't even Apples to Oranges. I've been through 3 different lift kits on my 2015 JKU-R Hard Rock.

The first was an AEV 2.5" SC. Loved it. Better than stock handling. It did squat some in the rear when loaded up with the camping gear, but not beyond level. I did have some rubbing at full articulation, but that was rare too. Then we got a small cargo-trailer with an RTT (Roof-Top-Tent). A trip through Colorado showed me that my rig on 35" tires (4.10 axles) needed better brakes. Otherwise, everything else was grand. EXCEPT..... the wife got tired of "TENTS", and she did not like the ladder in the dark when she needed to go out to the rest room. Especially in the rain. As I was retiring, and selling back my sick-time and unused vacation, I had a fist full of cash, over 1000 hours at my hourly rate. So we bought a new off-road rated trailer that could go anywhere.

I was immediately disappointed with the AEV 2.5" lift. It wasn't up to the task of the new trailer. I certainly loved the handling of the AEV products, better than the stock JKU-R on the highways are quite acceptable off-road too. So I traded a couple of E-mails with AEV, and soon I was purchasing the 3.5" SC lift kit. I got that installed and was immediately not happy. It was not only a LIFT kit, it was also a LEVELING kit. When I put the trailer on it the rear end sag was not acceptable. After more discussion I added a 1" spacer to the rear springs. But that wasn't quite enough, the trailer has a lot of tongue weight. The next suggestion was to add Air-Lift air bags. Simple enough, and cheap. So I tried it. It worked, but it felt like a band-aid solution to me. Without the air bags inflated I always thought the back end was a little soft. But the handling was superb. And I was able to sell the used AEV 2.5" lift for 50% of what I paid for it, so it wasn't a total loss. At the big annual Southern New Mexico 4X4 event, testing it on the RTI it did an 834. Not too bad.

At Overland Expo Flagstaff in 2021 I had the opportunity to meet the AEV folks in person. They went over my rig. What they did not ask previously and I did not mention or consider was the cargo in the rear of the JEEP. And it was significant. The AEV recommendation was to change to the 4.5" H/C lift, the H/C is the high-capacity "Overland" springs. Fortunately, all the components EXCEPT SPRINGS are the same in the 3.5" and 4'5" kits. So I only needed to buy the springs and bump-stops. It was still a leveling kit, so I still left the 1" spacers in when I swapped out the springs and bump-stops. But this was exactly where I needed to be. When fully loaded for an extended expedition, the rear end was still about 1/4-inch higher than the front. PERFECT! The rear was much stiffer. At first I thought too stiff. And I was able to sell the 3.5" springs and bump-stops for $200, so again it wasn't a total loss.

At the 2022 Southern New Mexico 4X4 event I discussed the changes I had made with several of the folks. The question was this. Coming from a 3.5" lift that ramped an 834, would going to a 4.5" lift with high-capacity springs ramp better or worse? For a few days the discussion was interesting, with best guesses on either side, better or worse. Finally on the last day there was a small crowd watching while we did the ramp. And it did an 828. Just slightly worse, almost not worth mentioning.

I wish you the best of luck on your situation.

View attachment 4571087

Thanks for the info. Do you know what your hard top clearance is?
I.e. how tall does your garage door entrance have to be?

 

I’ve tried a few different combos since 2008 and my favorite on the JKs and now the JLs is Rock Krawler Triple rate springs matched with Metal Cloak RockSport shocks. The Metal Cloak springs are only dual rate and are a bit stiffer then the Rock Krawler springs.


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The wife hated the teraflex lift (+ spacer) on my 09 jk. I went with a metalcloak lift and she was very pleased with the ride (Happy wife - happy life)

 

Springs are not dampeners. They should be responsible for holding up your load at a certain height range within a certain range via spring rates. Don't over spring unless you need a heavier rate to support a lot more weight and your Jeep should not ride like a dump truck at least because too firm coil spring rates. With that said i doubt you'll find softer spring rates in the aftermarket JK springs than the ones you have now from the factory. Shocks should be the main reason you get a more compliant ride because they're the dampeners. So if your Jeep is riding rough right now adding more spring rate via firmer springs won't exactly soften up the ride. I see you already switched from OE to Fox shocks so that was a good move considering you're doing wasboards so i'm assuming you like to go a little faster than what the OE shocks allow, which is nothing as those have ZERO control in the dirt.
Did you get rid of the shock extensions ?
What is the length of your current Fox shocks ?
Do you have mods that add extra weight ?
You might benefit a lot from custom shocks from Accutune for example.
I'm happy with my BDS Fox 2.0's for now, but my setup have more weight than stock because of mods, so i have RK 1.5" triple rate coils, all 8 Clayton overland+ arms with their Giiro bushings , full aftermarket steering etc, i don't need to lower to 15 psi to run washboards at 30-40mh , so trust me when i tell you setup do matters for a nice ride on or offroad. Eventually i'll upgrade to Kings 2.5 i just wish i didn't have to way 10 months for those suckers as i'll have if i order them today

 

NVH, noise, vibration and harshness. The problem you have is harshness if I read your post correctly. Harshness is almost always a control arm issue. As we lift we make the angle of attack on the control arms worse. The steeper it gets the more force is being sent into the cab. And because the stock bushing are so soft they deflect very easily and that actually sends more force into the cab. They are great for noise and vibration but not very good when it comes to harshness.

Installing geometry brackets would return the control arms to there stock location and improve your ride quality, especially with stock control arms. It will allow your suspension to work better. It is also fairly inexpensive vs playing around with shocks and springs.

 

Around town, I`ll leave my front sway bar disconnected. Takes some of the "jarring" from the ride.

 

Why Jeep didn’t use correction drop brackets when they lifted the JLs with the XR package? Compared to a standard JL Sport or Sahara the Rubi with the XR package handles absolutely great for a stock Jeep. It's not harsh and is lifted what 1.5-2" ? Fact how did Jeep improved the JL suspension over the JK suspension? little longer arms were in the mix all along, just like when we went from TJ's to JK's. it's still 4 links front and rear with trackbars . Seriously i don't think brackets will offer any benefit here other than restoring the caster the OPJeep lost after the spacer lift. And with those brackets you're still using the stock durometer in your OE bushings. Not sure how much faith people seem to give to the brackets cause they're cheap. Put longer front lowers and enjoy max clearance offroading. Those brackets are cheap voodo just like lowering tire pressure to mask the wrong coil springs/wrong or worned shocks or lack of caster. Multiple ways to skin a cat for sure, doesn't mean every single one is exactly the correct one for all applications.

 

I've never checked the XR package front lowers to the standard JL control arms. But I suspect they have the longer arms that come in the Mopar JL lift kit.

The brackets do in fact have a geometry advantage over a lifted Jeep without them. They do also offend some people with the loss of ground clearance. I ran them favorably and even dropped the Jeep on them at Moab and when everyone thought I had crushed them, the Rancho brackets proved they were better than AEV, etc. But that experience moved me to adjustables as well. For what it's worth, Behind the Rocks is not a trail for the faint of heart... If drivability is an issue, they are still an excellent choice for correcting problems.

 

I don’t know. I get the argument that the stock springs are softer than most aftermarket springs, but there is still something off about them. Maybe they are too soft to control the movement of the front axle, leading to unwanted cabin movement.

The EVO springs that I had up front were significantly smoother than stock. It wasn’t even close. But I still had issues with the rear end banging over bumps with the stock rear springs (max tow package).

I replaced the rear springs with Synergy. They felt more controlled over bumps, but just as firm. The front Synergy springs that replaced the EVOs are firmer than stock, but feel more controlled. I would never go back to stock springs.

If I were going for a smoother ride and had already replaced the shocks, the geo correction brackets make sense to try next. I would also consider a rear track bar bracket, to take some of the sideways motion out of the suspension travel.

if those didn’t do the trick, I would go for EVO springs, just because they are the devil I know.

 

It's all in the shocks and their valving characteristics to be able to control a softer or firmer spring given the weight you add on top of your what your Jeep came equipped with from th factory. The OE coils have enough spring rate to support the weight of the vehicle at the height the factory intended and they gave us different coil spring rates to achieve that depending on what options you had from the factory. The factory black shocks were valved so softly they were barely able to do their job (Some might think they were great though, it's all in how you use your rig and what you expect from it), You get lots of body roll, nose diving hard when you brake, they top out so easy if you try to keep 25-30mph on a dirt road etc . Rubicon shocks had better valving compared to the OE black shocks and allowed the Jeep to feel a little more compliant in the street and those dirt roads and compared to the OE black shocks they were an improvement for sure. No idea what valving they run but i doubt manufacturers deviate much from what's out there when it comes to shocks that are mass produced by the OE vendors. Coil springs have a predetermined coil spring rate to support weight measured in inch/lbs, springs just bounce up and down depending on road conditions. You can't exaclty use them to dampen road conditions because you can't tune how fast they compress or rebound. Shocks on the other side are made exactly for that job. They are able to "compress" at a relatively controlled pace resisting the compression of the coil and "rebound" at also a controlled pace to resist the action of the spring wanting to release back after getting compressed based on piston flow design and how that design combined with the valve stack on top of the piston allows oil to flow. the terms linear proggresive or digressive can be applied on rebound or compression for example depending what the shock vendor is trying to achieve in the valving . There is more into a shock compression and rebound valving than just saying the shock is firm because it's diggresive, is it diggresive cause what ? diggresive rebound or compression ? diggresive piston? There is more to this of course... this is just a simple way to try to explain what shocks are supposed to do and i'm not an expert by any means, i leave that to the dudes that do shock tuning for a living , i just know enough to ask the right questions when i need the shock tuners to give me something specific i want my shocks to do. Haven't have that pleasure yet with the Jeep but lets just say i've played a bit with Tacos and now my RAM 1500 with Icons 2.5 and now King 2.5 shocks.

So when you change your springs you're doing so to achieve a different height typically higher and/or support that height with an increase in weight mass. This is measured in inches/lbs. How many lbs of weight is needed to compress the spring 1 inch and also there is a function of spring length so combined this gives you a desired height. You can see for example OME have coil springs with very close to factory JK spring rates but add more bounded coils so you go up because the spring is longer while keeping a softer rate, while they also have other versions with a little shorter version of the coil but a thicker wire increasing the coil rate. You're lifting your vehicle either way but if you follow what i'm trying to convey, You could go up the right or not exactly the best way depending on weight for example and what shocks you're adding to dampen your rig. The harder the spring rate is, the more you need to match that new rate with more weight mass (it's easy to visualize how harsh a spring will feel if it had a very firm spring rate if your Jeep didn't have the weight needed for that spring to compress 1" for example compared to one with less spring rate) and the more you need a shock to be able to deal with that that change in spring rates. Most $50-$100 shocks out there that can't be tuned have a generic valving. When people try to tell you XYZ "tuned" their $80 shocks for their coils they're buying into that vendor's marketing. Just look at the shocks and see if XYZ company have shocks they can open up and service. King, Fox, Icon, SAW and others in that category can be serviced and their valve stacks/pistons, shafts,seals, oil weight etc etc can be changed to suite many needs.. Rancho, OME, Bistein 5100, Skyjacker and all the other cheapy shocks that can be discarded when they're done simply give you a generic shock with a generic piston and shaft and seals and oil , in our case the valving could be something in the 150/50, 170/60, 180/75 255/70 newtons or who knows what in that range. These numbers represent industry standard in the shock market, and they indicate rebound/compression force in Newtons at aprox 20 inch/second. Bilstein even have a table you can use when you go for example with their 5125 series where you can actually choose what valving you want to run. There is a lot more to this as well but in simple man terms the higher the numbers the higher the damping forces, higher in this case means oil flows at a slower rate. lesser means oil flows at a faster rate, so the piston forces to the shock shaft to move faster or slower depending on that valving you have. low speed compression events vs hi speed compression events are measured by how many inches of the travel per second the shock will move either on compression or rebound.So you get compression and rebound valving for regular street driving, litle pothles and speed bums and then whoops or jumps etc. Generic shocks give you a simple shock made to live well maybe under low speed compression and rebound events, (low speed doesn't have anythuing to do with your Jeep speed btw, just how many inches of travel per sec the shocks moves, slow compression speed for example is something that doesn't force the shock to compress say 10" in 1 ms lol, take for instance a MC red shock which are the ARB old OME's, when you compress it by hand it takes some force to compress the shock in full, then watch it rebound back to full extension, now grab a Fox 2.0 and try the same, Fox is gas charged as well so it takes a lot more efford to compress the Fox shock, and you bet it'll rebound faster than the OME. your springs and the road and your rig weight will force the shock piston to move faster or slower and oil flowing through the pistons and shims will cause a resistance for the oil to go through, that resistance is what give your vehicle control or make it feel "soft" or "firm" now you know there is a lot more than just my shock is too harsh ..... So if you're not into putting the pedal to the metal in a washboards with whoops and the like a generic valved shock could or will work well with more spring combinations as long as the spring rate falls in a suiteable range where the shock can dampen what needs to. That how vendors sell you "tuned" $80 shocks for XZY coil springs. Some have their own propietarey shocks and you can tell cause you need to send the shocks for service or you do them yourself. And yes you can call those semi-tuned, if the dudes didn't ask you for your Jeep weight, coil spring rate, tires weight etc, then they're NOT "tuned" for your application. Hope it makes sense cause it's long as heck hahahaha

Bilstein Valving Guide – MY4BY

www.my4by.com

You get a semi-tuned shock when you get into the higher end Fox 2.0 with reservoirs where you can change your low speed compression rate, and even better when you get into hi performance 2.5 shocks or higher where you can change low speed and hi speed or a mid compression adjuster that can change low and high compression with a single click, more attention to details is needed here though where the tuner can make the adjustments in the valve stacks so the mid adjuster can be more noticeable the further you move towards the firm settings depending on what mods you have. A single adjuster for both is easier on the end user, a dual adjuster where the user can set low and hi speed compression is more granular and desired if you want to go that way. As you can imagiane somebody has to set the rebound valving on that shock depending on what coils and what weight you have, but i'm assuming the industry may error out on a heavy Jeep when you get the OE shocks without a custom tune, how heavy only they know, if you have adjusters you can ballpark the shock feel even with OE valving. Here is where a tuner will shine and give you a more complete tune as they can get you as close as things will work hand in hand with what you have, (coil spring rates, tire size/weight,vehicle weight etc etc) making the performance of that shock tailored to what you have, . You can always contact your lift vendor and ask for spring rates, some might not list that info in their website, some others do but you can call and ask and they should provide that info. For example RK doesn't list spring specs in their werbsite but if you call they're more than happy to fill you in, Clayton do list specs in their wesbite, OME also list specs etc. provided that way you can have an idea how much sag you'll see in the spring because extra weight and maybe see if your springs will be too heavy or too soft. Dont know if the vendors can always tell you about their generic shock valving, If you call bisteins to order one of the generics 5125's they can tell more or less what you could run based on your vehicle weight.

Hope it helps.

 

Unfortunately, suspension isn't so black and white as "soft good" or "hard bad" when it comes to springs and shocks. If you have minimal bump travel or hit the bump stops often then going with a stiffer rate spring could actually give you a more comfortable ride overall. It really sucks that none of the spring manufacturers will tell anyone their actual spring rates so it's hard to actually make an informed decision on what will work best for you. The same goes for shocks (dampers), none of the manufacturers will give you dyno curves of their shocks either, and often they won't even tell you what kind of characteristics they were designed to, like linear, progressive, digressive damping, etc. All of those little minute details add up your vehicles ride quality, traction, and handling. To the consumer, choosing springs and shocks ends up becoming a crap shoot of trial and error until they get it right, or close enough at least.

 

Yeah, it's quite frustrating, the lack of precise specs. Also, with a butt-load of arthritis, it's harder than ever for me to change suspension components, and I don't want to do a lot of experimenting and trial-error runs. So I'm doing my best to pick y'all's brains and I'm thankful for the comments and suggestions.
Like many, I'm reticent about dropping the control arms -- ground clearance. And I'm not certain that the small change in angle of incidence can make a big enough difference to warrant the trouble. I do have some concern that lower-rate springs (softer) at the same ride height might punish me with more bump-stop bashing. I sure don't want THAT.
As for the tire-pressure trick, remember that these big 8-ply 35's have load ratings in the 3000 pound range, so the load/pressure chart would surely allow much lower pressures (for 1200 pounds) than standard-load numbers. The key here is sidewall bulge -- can't allow too much, or I'd get overheating on high-speed runs.
Everybody harps on shocks, with good reason -- but y'gotta remember that the compression damping on shocks is much softer than extension damping; it's going to have less influence on ride harshness, unless we're talking about shocks for jumping Jeeps.

Again, great thoughts and suggestions by all, and thanks. Still mulling it all over...

 

These put a little more icing on the cake... Metalcloak's DuroSpring Microcellular Replacement Bumpers, JK/JL Wrangler, Full Set

 

The best thing i ever did to improve the ride on any vehicle I've owned over the past 45 years was to get a set of custom tuned 2.5" king adjustable shocks for my two door jk. Not the least expensive obviously. The tuner spent no less than 50 minutes on two separate phone calls and an email specing out my jeep. All the questions about weight front and rear, usage, spring type etc was reviewed. Well worth it in the end.

 

Here's why I'm still thinking about spring rates in regard to ride quality:

Suppose I have a set of springs, with spacers, that have spring rates of 250 pounds per inch. Ride height is 2.5" lift. When I hit a 1" bump in the road, that spring will push 250 pounds of force into the frame and body. (I'm ignoring shocks, for the sake of simple comparisons)

Now, I buy a different set of springs, no spacers, that have 200 pounds per inch rates, but because they're longer, I get the same 2.5" lift ride height. Now, with this longer/softer spring, when I hit the 1" road bump, I get only 200 pound of force into the body. Again, let's disregard the shocks for now.

To me, this makes intuitive sense. But the softer springs will definitely tend to bottom out sooner (assuming same length of travel), so that's an important issue. I think in the end, it's all about trade-offs.

 

Take off the shocks and go for a short ride around the block. No matter the spring I bet it'll be pretty soft.

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Fronts are actually 122 and rears are 166... I haven't worked on this in years, but it's all from either manufacturers websites or direct communication with the manufacturer.

 

Fronts are actually 122 and rears are 166... I haven't worked on this in years, but it's all from either manufacturers websites or direct communication with the manufacturer.

Most springs now days are multi rate. This includes the stock springs.

 

Thoughts on spring rates are valid. From my experience though, shocks have impacted the ride on my JK far more than springs. Someone may have mentioned, remove the shocks and move the Jeep in your driveway or just push down on the bumper. It moves around significantly since there's no shock damping. I can push down on the bumper easily with soft shocks (Rocksports) but it barely moves with stiffer Fox shocks